Shed & Shine â Duo Episode: Attention and Presence
00:00:00 - 00:00:16
Gino Wickman
Like I'm seeing something float through space and it's heading in a direction and something just kind of nudges it and just changes its course a little bit.
00:00:20 - 00:00:29
Rob Dube
Hello everyone, my name is Rob Dube and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, what is happening?
00:00:29 - 00:00:30
Gino Wickman
Well, let's see. I'm about to record a podcast.
00:00:31 - 00:00:31
Rob Dube
Whoa.
00:00:31 - 00:00:34
Gino Wickman
As I always say, you're happening, my brother.
00:00:34 - 00:00:54
Rob Dube
You're happening. That's right. That's right. Well, Gino, today we're going to talk about attention and presence. So as it relates to attention, there's a saying called the attention economy. That's how impactful attention is. It's got its own economy going on. And if I can get your attention, maybe I'll win or gain something.
00:00:54 - 00:00:56
Gino Wickman
Which, I'm sorry, I missed what you said there. Could you back up?
00:00:57 - 00:01:24
Rob Dube
So with all this grasping for our attention, we seem to have lost our ability to give attention, attention and presence to other human beings in our lives and maybe people we know or don't even know. This applies to all aspects of life. Seems like we aren't always intentional about our attention. It's hard for so many to stay focused these days, to be present and be in the moment right here, right now.
00:01:25 - 00:01:46
Rob Dube
When we're able to be attentive, to be fully present, for example, when we are learning, the learning goes deeper inside of us. We embody it, and the insights really stick. I used to think time was our most precious resource, but nowadays I wonder if attention may be even more valuable.
00:01:47 - 00:02:03
Rob Dube
Here's another example. Our phones and devices are designed to grab our attention. Why? Because consciously or unconsciously, this moment just might not be enough for us. Something better could be waiting just one glance away.
00:02:05 - 00:02:42
Rob Dube
You and I enjoy football. We're both Detroit Lions fans. You have season tickets. I remember being at a playoff game. We were both there two seasons ago. The crowd was so electric and they began all the hoopla at the beginning of the game. And I looked around the stadium and I noticed how many people were on their phones, videoing, texting. It was like the moment alone wasn't good enough. They wanted to enhance it, to have a memory on video of it or text a friend. So I'm not judging that. I completely understand. It's just an observation.
00:02:42 - 00:02:58
Rob Dube
So this goes back to the attention economy. Truth is, it's not a fair fight, this attention economy. It's 10,000 software engineers versus us. And now it's AI. They're going to win, I hate to tell you. All right, so what's coming up for you, Gino?
00:02:59 - 00:03:02
Gino Wickman
I just don't even know where this is going to go, but this is going to be a fun one.
00:03:02 - 00:03:04
Rob Dube
You always take it in an awesome place, honestly.
00:03:04 - 00:03:26
Gino Wickman
Yeah, but I think we're going to take this one somewhere I have no idea. So the first, I won't remember this quote perfectly, but it's an Eckhart Tolle quote. And what he talks about is the definition of evil. Okay, and so I'm going off in a weird direction to come back, but evil, okay.
00:03:26 - 00:03:50
Gino Wickman
And he talks about how anytime we are unconscious, it is evil. Like, wow, now that's weird. And that's scary. And it's like, what the hell does it even mean? And holy crap. But said another way, the opposite way, is when we are conscious, we are the opposite of evil. Good, love, True Self energy.
00:03:50 - 00:04:17
Gino Wickman
So again, here we go with words, but I'm going to use the word evil because, again, words, I just love words. Evil can be described as darkness, negativity, bad, unhealthy, sin. Okay, so the word sin, when you look up the root of that word, it just means off bullseye, off the mark, off target. It just means that you're not right in the center.
00:04:17 - 00:04:56
Gino Wickman
So sin, all these words I just gave you are all variations of evil, bad energy, dark energy. So that's how Eckhart Tolle describes it. And you could soften that by saying, you know, anytime we're unconscious, it's not good, but evil, man, that's a word that gets your attention. So that's the first thing that comes to my mind. And then there's another variation of this that I heard, which is along the lines of, I'm just going to put our words on it, anything that isn't our True Self, anytime we're not being our True Self, is evil. And then again, throw all those other words on there.
00:04:56 - 00:05:25
Gino Wickman
So if that point makes sense, this whole attention thing that you're talking about, when we are distracted, when somebody has taken our attention from the thing that we should be conscious and aware about, they're taking us off the bullseye. Okay, this is where I don't know where this is going to go because I'm just telling you what came up for me. And then I'm curious about your reaction to this. But what I feel like is this is, you know, from our book Shine, this is Discovery Number Two in its purest form.
00:05:25 - 00:05:46
Gino Wickman
And with the revised version, the way that I revised it, because again, I took the ball on this one, I think I articulate it clearer than ever because it was a little bumpy before. But all we're talking about here is in that discovery, all decisions are made out of love or fear. When it's fear, it's ego-laden. When it's love, it's coming from your True Self.
00:05:46 - 00:06:07
Gino Wickman
And so again, there's that cocoon that is our ego that has our True Self trapped in there. Anytime we're distracted, anytime something's stealing our attention, it's the cocoon, it's the ego, it's that darkness, it's that evil, it's that thing that is taking us off the bullseye. So like I said, I have no idea where this goes next, but it just feels like this is unfolding.
00:06:07 - 00:06:08
Rob Dube
Yeah.
00:06:08 - 00:06:14
Gino Wickman
So what did that prompt for you? And if I'm way off base, bring me back because I didn't know where we were going with this.
00:06:14 - 00:06:39
Rob Dube
Totally on base. You know, I was thinking about just from a regular everyday standpoint, making your way through the day. The other day I had a lot going on and my wife came up to me and she said, are you okay? And I said, yeah, why? What's going on? I feel great. And she goes, okay, it just, I just felt like something seemed off. And I had to pause and I said, yeah, I'm just, I've got a lot on my mind.
00:06:39 - 00:07:05
Rob Dube
So I wasn't fully present. I wasn't giving full attention. She picked up on that energy. Obviously she's my wife, but how are other people picking up on that who aren't going to come right up to you and say that to you? We've had rough days. And when you have a lot going on, how do you manage that? And I'm curious, when you're going through a lot, how do you bring yourself back to presence?
00:07:05 - 00:07:42
Gino Wickman
Yeah, yeah. And as I answer that, the other thought, because you mentioned phones, I forgot to grab that thought because it's maddening to me to see so many people on their phones. And again, I'm not going to be this old guy, 58-year-old complaining, but I'm pretty obsessive about when we're out to dinner, whoever we are, that we stay off of our phones. And when we're together as a family, we stay off our phones. When friends are together, we stay off our phones. And so my friends and family are pretty good about that. And it might be partly my obsession, but everybody kind of commits to it. But it's maddening to me to see all these people distracted by their phones.
00:07:42 - 00:08:07
Gino Wickman
And I can't remember the math now, but it's some crazy number, like 16 to 18 hours a week on social media. My driven mind, the productivity that's being lost is freaky. Now, with that said, I treat myself to like 15 minutes a day on social media. X is my platform. It gives me a rundown on everything going on and the topics that I'm interested in, and then I'm done.
00:08:08 - 00:08:31
Gino Wickman
So, you know, I'm guilty that I get pulled in. It's running algorithms on me, it's playing tricks on me. And so it's so masterful. You're right. It has us in a trance. And how do we get out of this trance? I hope we're going to come out of this trance. But a phone is just one example. Then you have the news and then you have all this other stuff that everybody's competing for our attention. Pulling us off the bullseye.
00:08:31 - 00:08:54
Gino Wickman
So I know I'm not directly answering your question. I just wanted to say the phone thing, but the phone is just one example, you know, because it was a newspaper in 1942 and it was reading a stone in 10 BC, I don't know. So keep going. Bring me back. I am going to answer your question, but keep me on task.
00:08:55 - 00:09:06
Rob Dube
I have no idea what my question was. But while you're on the phone topic, I did want to say, because I think you're so good at creating those boundaries. And I think that's really important to presence and being intentional about it.
00:09:06 - 00:09:22
Rob Dube
Are you going to participate on social media? If so, and I know it's really easy for me to say, if so, just do what Gino does, 15 minutes a day and that's it. Yeah, so you go on and you're like, okay, 15 minutes. And the next thing you know, it's an hour and 15 minutes. I mean, it's so classic.
00:09:22 - 00:09:48
Rob Dube
You know, I saw an interview recently with two kids who are seniors in college. Really sharp kids. And they were talking about how social media has really captured their attention to the degree where they feel the unhealthiness of it. They feel like they're not as present. They don't have that attention. I think that's happening to people our age too.
00:09:49 - 00:10:10
Rob Dube
For whatever it's worth, my daughter, who's 27, told me about this thing called BRICK. You can buy it. It's like $50 or something like that. And it's an app blocker. So you can set it up and the BRICK thing makes it so the apps aren't functional until you tell it they're functional. And you actually have to get up and walk over to this thing to make them functional.
00:10:10 - 00:10:20
Rob Dube
For whatever that's worth, many people have told me they appreciated that recommendation. So I felt like I wanted to say it on the podcast. So anyway, what's coming up for you?
00:10:21 - 00:10:32
Gino Wickman
Again, this is why I felt like this is kind of weird and going to just kind of go all over. That's not necessarily going all over the place. I'm just going to let it go where it goes. But what's coming up is distractions, okay?
00:10:32 - 00:10:49
Gino Wickman
So it's making me think of, there's a term for this. It's like taking a break from your technology. It's very popular right now, especially with young people, where they're taking that break, whatever it's called, and they're seeing the benefits. They're realizing what it's like to come back to consciousness and be present.
00:10:50 - 00:11:13
Gino Wickman
But I view this as like a distraction or an addiction. And so if you have an addictive personality, it just so happens that your phone is going to be your addiction. And so for others, it might be drinking, gambling, whatever the addiction is that's numbing you and distracting you from the real world. That's what this is all about. Again, evil pulling you away from being conscious.
00:11:15 - 00:11:31
Gino Wickman
And then don't even get me started with gambling apps on phones, you know. I don't even know how that story ends, but it is not going to end well. I mean, I would love to know the amount of money being lost by 20-somethings on their phones, on apps, gambling all day long.
00:11:32 - 00:11:42
Gino Wickman
So anyway, because I gambled, you know, I had a bookie from age 18 to 21. So I'm not innocent in this. I couldn't even imagine if I had access to that at that age.
00:11:42 - 00:11:57
Gino Wickman
Anyway, I digress a little bit, but pulling it back to your question that I'm now vaguely remembering, what do we do about this? And I think what we do about this is stillness practices, is being disciplined.
00:11:57 - 00:12:22
Gino Wickman
You know, it's not easy to do, but my phone is always off. My phone does not ring. I look at my phone on my time. I don't look at email. My assistant looks at email. There's nothing drawing me to that distraction, to that tool, to that mechanism that's calling for my attention or trying to get my attention. So little things like that, and what your daughter is doing, that app, that sounds awesome. That sounds incredible.
00:12:23 - 00:12:33
Gino Wickman
So I think we just have to be disciplined enough to take a break from it, practice some stillness, and reconnect with our souls, because it just feels like it's pulling us further and further and further away.
00:12:34 - 00:13:01
Rob Dube
So it's like you're listening and you're thinking to yourself, yeah, that all makes such good sense, but what are the benefits? Why am I going to change my behavior? And you mentioned a couple of different ways, but at the end of the day, I think when you're a driven high performer like you are, and when you're taking time to cultivate and elevate presence and bringing more attention into your life, you're more focused, and then you're making better decisions, and your mind and your body have more ease.
00:13:02 - 00:13:31
Rob Dube
So if that's not enough of a benefit, I don't know what is. But I think I do know what is, and that is that you're just going to be a better human in the world. And I mean, let's take that seriously. I'm not going to go on a riff, I'm just going to get on a mini soapbox and just say, be a better human in the world. Like, really give your full attention, practice it with every interaction throughout the day. It's so powerful, and it will lead to so much more peace in your life. Just pure love.
00:13:32 - 00:13:33
Gino Wickman
Anything coming up?
00:13:33 - 00:13:50
Gino Wickman
Yeah, last thing that's prompted for me is, first, this sounds like two old guys ranting, so hopefully that's not how it's coming out. It's what it's feeling like to me, but maybe we're making sense, and hopefully this does wake a few people up. You'll pass this on to the person that needs to hear it.
00:13:50 - 00:14:10
Gino Wickman
But the most important thing that comes up for me is this would be my challenge to anyone out there, and pass this along to the person in your life that you think needs this. The 2 hours you're about to spend on social media, trade it for a 2-hour clarity break.
00:14:10 - 00:14:26
Gino Wickman
No matter what you do for a living, and even if you don't have a career, go take a 2-hour clarity break in the most precious sanctuary for you. Mine is Starbucks. But I would challenge you, trade off those 2 hours you're about to spend.
00:14:26 - 00:14:44
Gino Wickman
Just try this. Go to your place, take a 2-hour clarity break. Start by pulling out something to write on and just clear your head of any issues, ideas, thoughts, everything going on in your life. What's rolling around in that head of yours? Just list it all.
00:14:45 - 00:15:05
Gino Wickman
And then spend the next hour and 15 minutes thinking. Think about your future. Think about your plans. Think about your goals. Think about what you want in life. Think about the solutions to those things. And that might drive you to carve out some time to spend on whatever comes out of there, as opposed to how you might spend it on social media the next day.
00:15:05 - 00:15:22
Gino Wickman
And maybe that's something that, it's like I'm seeing this visual where all of a sudden, like I'm seeing something float through space and it's heading in a direction and something just kind of nudges it and just changes its course a little bit. Maybe that 2 hours is going to change the course of the next 20 years of your life.
00:15:23 - 00:15:27
Rob Dube
That's so good, Gino. I think we've said it all.
00:15:27 - 00:15:30
Gino Wickman
Well, you said it, I didn't.
00:15:31 - 00:15:39
Rob Dube
All right everyone, thanks as always for joining us, and we'll see you next time. And in the meantime, stay focused and much love.
00:15:40 - 00:15:53
Gino Wickman
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
