Shed & Shine â Duo Episode: When Your Drive Is Productive (And When It Isn't)
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When the drive is coming from the inside out, it's good. When the drive is coming from the outside in, it's bad.
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Hello everyone. My name is Rob Dube, and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, good to see you.
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Good to see you back.
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Let's talk about when your drive is productive and when your drive isn't productive. So let me kick this off by saying I spend a lot of time working with driven, high-performing people these days, and I notice a common theme: they love building, they're creative, so they're creating things. They also love learning how to be great leaders. But what I'm noticing more and more is they desire something that's been feeling a little bit out of reach to them, and that's a little bit more clarity, but definitely peace. Peace.
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And what I've noticed over time is maybe in part the issue is where's this drive coming from? Some drive is really productive. It's really grounded. It's natural. It's connected to your purpose and your presence. But often the drive is not productive. It's kind of like uptight. It's an urgency. It's restless. Even when things are going really well, it's almost like it's an ego-fueled urgency that's full of pressure, proving, and fear of slowing down.
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So with that as kind of a starting point, what's coming up for you?
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Well, here's what's coming up really clearly, and I jokingly want to say I think this is going to be about a minute and a half long episode. Now, that's not going to be the case, but it's so clear to me that the answer to your question, if there were a question here, but it's simply this: when the drive is coming from the inside out, it's good. When the drive is coming from the outside in, it's bad.
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So now again, good, bad. Please, everybody out there, don't freak out about words. I just love this conversation about words. At the end of the day, there are no words. It's all a feeling and a sensation. Now, with that said, you use the word peace, right? When we talk about this thing people are searching for, when you're saying you're seeing them seeking this thing that we're calling peace, that can be called fulfillment. That can be called clarity. That can be called calm. That could be called just the opposite, angst, the opposite of angst, the opposite of intensity, the opposite of pick your word. It could be called zen.
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And so many of us are seeking that feeling, that thing that there's just a calm in our body. Our nervous system is calm. So just so that all the words everyone's hearing out there fit into this bucket that we're calling peace, you get to call it whatever you want. But again, it seems like people are seeking more peace. And I could not agree more. And that's where I got pinged eight years ago and got my wake-up call that, "Holy crap, this approach ain't going to be a whole lot more fun for the next 30 years. So something's got to change."
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So back to my point, when it's good, when it's bad. Good drive, bad drive. Good drive inside out. Bad drive outside in. And so inside out just simply means that it's coming from your True Self or soul or spirit or essence or whatever you want to call that thing. We call it True Self here. Again, more words. But when it's coming from your True Self from the inside out, it's typically a good drive. And it's a drive that you can pair and match with peace.
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Outside in is when it's bad. And that's when it's not coming from your True Self. It's coming from your ego. It's coming from the outside world. It's coming from competition and comparison and judgment. It's when the decision you're making to go forward is based on all of that outside pressure. And so your ego is saying, "Go here because of that." That's outside in. So there's the fastest way I can describe it.
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No, it's great. What does it feel like? So you talk about inside. And I was thinking about this, one of my questions, I think it leads nicely into what you were just saying. What does it feel like on the inside? And I'm curious about your personal experience. What does that peace feel like?
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Yeah. It feels peaceful. So that's the word that comes to mind. That's the word we picked. We picked it for a reason because that's the word to describe this thing that I feel. And so again, how do you describe a feeling? It's like we put these words on things that are feelings.
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So I'll try a few other words like I just shared, you know, zen, calm, things like that. But if you have ever been in a deep meditative state, as thank God I now have been so many times, can't always get there, but man, when I get there. And so it's this nothingness. There is no feeling. There is no sensation. It is just calm, peace, silence.
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So again, there's no word to describe it, but I'm doing my best to take myself there. Now, all of a sudden, there it is. There's that place. How many times have I gotten there? Not so much how many times, but how often am I there in a week?
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I mean, it's like one or two or three meditations get me there for maybe 2 to 30 minutes. It's like it's not going on 24/7. But the reminder of that place and then feeling that place seeping into other things, I believe the journey and the destination is to stay in that place at all times while we are working and driving and doing things. And I think it's possible.
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Like right now I'm feeling it as I'm describing it. Like I can feel it in my hands. And so it will show up and then I'm like, "Ah, that's the place. That's it." But it's a nothingness. It's a knowingness. It's a, "I'll stop because there aren't any words." Hopefully that helped.
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Yeah. And a few things come to mind. Calm is, I think, a great word. One thing that I do want to say as it relates to this is that doesn't mean the other types of feelings and emotions just go away, especially as you're making your way through your day. When you're in meditation, well, they come up in meditation too, actually, sometimes more intensely.
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But I think what I want to encourage the listeners to consider is to come out of the head. So just notice when you're in your head and you're like, "I don't like this feeling. I'm feeling angry. I don't like this. I'm feeling frustrated. I want to get away from this." That's actually a great opportunity to stop and just get out of your mind and bring it down into your body, noticing where you're feeling sensations, breathing into them, or whatever the technique is that's best for you, and being okay with it.
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Just don't worry about getting it gone. Let it be there because it's there for a reason. And you just allow it to be. You don't be attached to it. You're not unattached to it. You're just working through that moment. And you'll feel maybe a little mini-release. It might just feel a very natural sense in your body. There you go. There's clarity.
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Yeah. And what that reminds me of is my doctor taught me something he calls the mini-breaks throughout the day. Okay? And so I'm going to zoom out and then zoom in on this one because in Shine we teach stillness practices, right? And we teach four basic stillness practices: meditation, contemplation, prayer, journaling. What I'm realizing is when I look back on my life in the last 30 years, I realize all the different forms of stillness that have served me so well. So in addition to those four, there's also clarity breaks that I always took in business. And it was two hours in a busy coffee shop, but I was sitting there in silence and stillness and thinking about all the chaos in my life and getting organized. And that would bring a calm.
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But now coming right back to what you asked, mini-breaks. So when you're talking about that driven person in that intense state that just wants to figure out how to get into their body, mini-breaks are throughout the day because I started doing this, it's been about six months now, where you just take, it's 30 seconds, maybe 60, and you just start doing deep belly breaths. If you just do three, you will accomplish exactly what you just said. And so you just pause, breathe deep into your belly and out, deep into your belly and out. Do three of those, and all of a sudden that will instantly happen for you. And the more you do that throughout the day, it's a habit. And all of a sudden you'll ground yourself faster, even without having to do that. So that.
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That's great. But I think one of the things that I think about is where I'm noticing as I go out through the chaos, as you say, and I'm noticing this throughout the day, just checking in with the body and noticing physical cues, tightness, things of that nature.
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Is the speed going too fast for me right now? Do I need a break?
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And when it is, I notice for me the quality of my work diminishes. But I think for some people it gets better. How do you feel about that?
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Yeah, there's no question. And I love speed. That's one of my hot buttons right now is I shared this in a previous episode, Synchronicity Pocket. So if you go back to that episode, you'll hear this. But dialing in your perfect speed, we're all different. So some of us need to go 85 miles an hour. Some of us need to go 35 miles. Finding your perfect speed, oh, it's magical because in that place, in that pocket, you see everything and a peace will come over you.
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You know, I was thinking about productivity. I was thinking about driven people. They're going fast and oftentimes they're getting rewarded in life and in business for what seems to be something that is productive, like working long hours. People say, "Oh, he works so hard." And it almost becomes part of your identity. Even people that rarely take a vacation or when they're on vacation, I wouldn't even call it a vacation. So I'm curious what comes up for you when I talk about that in terms of productivity.
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Well, I mean, my mind immediately goes to the 10 Disciplines. It's all in there. And it's a matter of, again, figuring out your perfect formula, your definition for what hard work is. So again, 30 years, I worked 55 hours a week. I would work 11-hour days. And so that's a lot for some people. It's not enough for others. So you got to figure out your formula.
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So hard work is all relative. And there's no question hard work has been vital for the last 2,000 years or 5,000 years or whatever. I don't know if something's about to change in the universe. But right now, as we sit here today, hard work still rewards you to this day. So you just have to figure out what hard work means to you. What is your correct formula? And anything over that is working too hard. So I don't know if that.
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Yeah, for sure. And working hard and working smart, which I'm not saying you're saying or not saying, but working smart with clarity, I think helps a lot. That's where you do your best work, I believe.
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And then a key point that I wanted to bring up here is just watch where your identity is getting in the way. Because if you're the guy who always works hard and everybody's always saying, "Oh, you're the guy who, oh, you're always working so hard. Oh my gosh." And it just feels like something special to you, I would just take a step back and actually question, is it becoming part of your identity and it isn't actually your True Self?
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Yeah. But I view that as a double-edged sword. Okay? And so if you think of a spectrum, working too hard and not working hard enough, I was really happy with my 55 hours a week for decades. And lots of people said I worked too hard. So this is where you got to, on one side, be careful not to get caught up in that helium of people and their opinions.
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While at the same time, if you are burning out and you are doing it for your ego and you are doing it because that's what your dad taught you or your mom taught you back then, that's where it's dangerous. And so these are the contradictions in life. You got to weigh all those things, the outside world's opinion, what they taught you, and where's your sweet spot?
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Because again, I've been told I work too hard by so many people I lost count where just as quickly somebody working 40 hours a week, that might be too hard in somebody else's opinion. If somebody's working 25 hours a week, I'm going to look at that person. I'm going to say, "Oh, you're not working hard enough."
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So we all have our own opinions. There's this big pool of opinions. At the end of the day, we got to decide what is the magic formula for us.
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That's right. And just be aware. Bring awareness to it. Is it productive? Is all this hard work productive? I like to say proper effort is required. Not too much, not too little. Because I personally think, this is just my own opinion, that in the middle seems to always be the right place.
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Yeah. And so middle is all relative, right? And so I like to call that your sweet spot. But I love spectrums, right? And so if I'm having this conversation with somebody and they say, "Hey, do you think I'm working too hard?" I'm going to say, "Well, here's what I know."
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You're assuming I'm talking to a driven person. Working zero hours a week is not enough. And working 100 hours a week is too much. Okay? So let's talk about where are you in between. And for some, they're going to land on 35 and some they're going to land on 60. And there's just no bad answer.
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It's crazy contradictions in life. If somebody's trying to imprint the right answer on you, it ain't fair. It ain't right. And you just got to decide for you.
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Yeah. Good stuff. All right, Gino, anything else coming up for you before we wrap it up here?
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As I like to say often, we've said it all.
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We've said it all. Okay. Well, thanks, Gino. And thanks to all of you for joining us. And we will see you next time. In the meantime, stay focused and much love.
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Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us. And please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
