TEN ā Episode 104 Clean Transcript
00:00:00 Gino Wickman
And in the early days, when I was insecure and scared and wounded and a
nobody trying to get an appointment and a call with somebody, yeah,
sometimes I might bend the truth a little bit to get my foot in that
door.
00:00:24 Rob Dube
Hello everyone. My name is Rob Dube, and I am here with Gino Wickman.
Geno, how are you?
00:00:32 Gino Wickman
Do you.
00:00:33 Rob Dube
Those eyes.
00:00:34 Gino Wickman
Yeah, because Iām sitting here thinking, do you really care how Iām
doing? Because hereās how Iām doing. Do you?
00:00:39 Rob Dube
I really do.
00:00:40 Gino Wickman
Because hereās how Iām doing. Iām doing two simultaneous emotions. Iām
really excited about our podcast today, and Iām a little crabby and
cranky and edgy. And so Iām driving here.
00:00:55 Rob Dube
I want to pet you right now.
00:00:56 Gino Wickman
Yeah, and Iām like, why am I cranky and crabby and edgy today? And itās
like I had an aha that I think Iām going through a growing pain. You
know, again, so we expand and contract. I think Iām in a contraction
period, and like my tectonic plates are shifting. And so I canāt wait to
do a podcast episode feeling edgy and cranky and crabby.
00:01:20 Rob Dube
Oh my God.
00:01:21 Gino Wickman
And then I had this thought. I shared it with you as we started that,
like newscasters, you know? So you think about the news. So you and I
are sitting here, you know, getting ready, and the producerās about to
say, you know, weāre going to start rolling. And all of a sudden, thatās
when the newscaster has to go, okay, hello. Itās showtime.
00:01:37 Rob Dube
Youāre on now.
00:01:38 Gino Wickman
Iām happy. So I just felt like telling you.
00:01:41 Rob Dube
What kind of contraction is this? Whatās happening?
00:01:44 Gino Wickman
Listen to episode number blankety blank. I donāt know which one it was,
but as we grow and expand, we also contract. Itās a growing pain. So
every time weāre learning a new big lesson, every time weāre going to
the next level, there are growing pains, and tectonic plates shift, and
itās a revolutionary period. And I can feel that thatās whatās going on.
00:02:09 Rob Dube
Is the contraction just happening today, or have you been noticing it?
00:02:11 Gino Wickman
Oh, no. Iāve been in this one for at least a few weeks.
00:02:15 Rob Dube
Okay, because you were just on a retreat, a personal retreat for four
days, listened to episode 92 or 93, I think it is. You did a great riff
on that. And so now, did something come to light while you were there?
00:02:29 Gino Wickman
Well, life is very full right now, and so some lesson is brewing. You
never know what it is until the end of it and the outcome.
00:02:38 Rob Dube
But I guess where Iām getting at is, did that time where you kind of
settled down and got away from a lot of things, did it stir something up
for you?
00:02:46 Gino Wickman
No, no, no. I wouldnāt tie it to that. No.Ā This is just a lot of life
happening right now. So itās just expanding and contracting. And this is
only number 223 in my lifetime. So itās not like this is a new thing.
Iām just telling you whatās going on. So I donāt think we need to drill
down into it because this one isnāt even a big one, but I could feel
that thatās whatās going on. And so as I was driving in going, why do I
feel a little edgy, cranky, and crabby? And I realized, hmm, thatās
whatās going on. And I just thought I would openly share because you
genuinely ask, how am I doing? And so I thought Iād just be really
honest before we launch into our podcast.
00:03:26 Rob Dube
Thereās a guy that I did a podcast with when I used to do my interview
podcast, which Iām doing right now with you, the interview podcast. You
know I prefer that.
00:03:37 Gino Wickman
I know you do.
00:03:38 Rob Dube
So his name is Jerry Colona, and heās a great, great guy. He has a book
called Reboot. You could check that out. You donāt have to go get it,
but we started the podcast, and I said, how are you doing? And he said,
good. And then he said to me, how are you doing? And I said, yeah, Iām
good. And he goes, but how are you really doing?
00:04:05 Rob Dube
And then we got into a really deep conversation. And so he likes to
start a lot of his conversations off with the second, how are you really
doing? Because thereās always something under there, and then you can
keep going deeper. So you started that off this way, and I appreciate
that.
00:04:25 Gino Wickman
Yeah. And I also.
00:04:25 Rob Dube
Because you said Iām edgy.
00:04:26 Gino Wickman
I said to myself, if Rob asks me how Iām doing, Iām going to tell him
the truth. And thatās what I did. Yeah. And now we have a podcast to
record. So we better get into this damn content.
00:04:37 Rob Dube
Why? Are you getting edgy about it?
00:04:39 Gino Wickman
Not at all. Iām good. But listen, Iām feeling a little cranky, edgy, and
pissed off right now. So Iām ready to dive in if you are.
00:04:47 Rob Dube
Thatās great. All right. Well, I guess we got to get to todayās topic,
Mr.Ā Edgy. So todayās topic, Iām actually, I donāt know if I want to say
the topic because youāre edgy today. The topicās hidden agendas. And you
told me yesterday you werenāt really sure you loved that as a topic, but
I think youāre going to love it by the end. Weāll see.
00:05:06 Rob Dube
Let me give you a little context from my standpoint, and then you tell
me whatās coming to your mind. But I read something about the actual
term hidden agendas and how this happens in our lives. And then now with
this new awareness that I had, a person I know, not well, but I know
them, contacted me and asked to catch up over Zoom. And so we did that.
I agreed to catch up with this person. And midway through the meeting, I
realized that the real reason for him wanting to connect wasnāt just to
connect. He actually had an agenda, which he did not tell me about.
00:05:44 Rob Dube
And the thing is, is when someone has an agenda, it means they are
connecting because thereās something they want versus wanting to build a
genuine relationship, which I thought was the actual agenda. So that
left me wondering, why didnāt he just say thatās why he wanted to
connect? I would have so appreciated that. And in Shine, we write that
all decisions are made from love and fear or fear. And my friend didnāt
share his agenda with me prior because I think he might have had a fear
that I might not have wanted to connect with him otherwise, fear or fear
of rejection.
00:06:25 Rob Dube
So if he were to say, Iād love to connect because I want to tell you how
my product can help your company. And as always, I just love connecting
with you. That would be really authentic. And I probably still would
have connected with him. So when you think about it, our lives are full
of these, especially with driven people, because we are all hawking our
wares, as you like to say.
00:06:47 Gino Wickman
Yes, I do.
00:06:48 Rob Dube
Or we need connection to someone or help with something, et cetera, et
cetera. So I hope we, Geno and I, help you, the listener, bring
awareness to maybe some of the hidden agendas you have in your life.
Now, why? Because the best relationships and opportunities happen when
youāre upfront and completely honest about your intentions in all
aspects of your life. So thatās my context. Whatās coming up for you?
00:07:16 Gino Wickman
Yeah, very interesting. And I love, you know, you shared something. I
think itās important that we share because rarely do you and I ever talk
about the content of an episode. You just send me five topics. I see
them in advance. We launch in. And there was something just about this
one that was like just hitting me funny, and I didnāt quite get where
you were going. And so we had a brief conversation about it. So Iām
curious where this goes.
00:07:39 Gino Wickman
I want to add something, though. You mentioned something about, you
know, how my ability, you know, to run a meeting and the objective of a
meeting. Are you wanting to bring that into this conversation? Do you
still see a tie to that?
00:07:51 Rob Dube
Oh, yeah.
00:07:52 Gino Wickman
So then I would ask you, is bring that in when youāre ready? Because I
want to start with what you said. And Iām going to just say a couple of
high-level points, at least what that prompts for me, okay? Because, you
know, I have lots of people that reach out to me and say, hey, can we
talk? Can we meet? Can we this? Can we that? And I have to say no to, I
donāt even know what the percentage is because most of them I donāt hear
about because Karen filters it all and redirects them in a direction.
00:08:16 Gino Wickman
So Karen is always saying, you know, whatās the objective of the
meeting? So with your friend, you know, if you had incorporated that,
you know, that may have bubbled to the surface as real reason. And it
may very well have helped you say, oh, donāt have time this week. Reach
out in the spring because I am booked for the next two months.
00:08:35 Gino Wickman
So I want to start with that premise because what Iād love to do is
share some ideas on how to filter those out because itās as important to
know the objective and the real agenda of the meeting as it is weeding
it out. Because to me, this whole conversation is know your 100%.
00:08:55 Gino Wickman
You out there, we, you know, so me, itās now 40 hours a week, 40 weeks a
year. Thatās all Iāve got. And so itās full. I canāt squeeze in 10 more
meetings this quarter. And so Iāve got to get really good at weeding
those out.
00:09:10 Gino Wickman
So to me, this is that discipline, know your 100%, and managing time.
This is a time management conversation weāre about to have. So I want to
start with that statement, and Iām going to pause, see what that prompts
for you, and letās do our back and forth.
00:09:25 Rob Dube
No, no. Please keep going unless you have.
00:09:27 Gino Wickman
No, I want to turn it back over to you.
00:09:28 Rob Dube
Okay, because, you know, I wanted to go a little bit deeper into why
this happens.
00:09:33 Gino Wickman
Please. Yeah, yeah.
00:09:34 Rob Dube
And Iāll start and then tell me what comes up for you. So, you know, I
was thinking for many, this comes back to your childhood, actually,
because what happens is your hidden agenda comes as an adult now, comes
from maybe when you were younger and you shared your true feelings, and
maybe you were ashamed because of it, or you were punished, or maybe
even ignored.
00:09:58 Rob Dube
And so your nervous system learns this, and that indirect or hidden, you
learn that these indirect or hidden ways of communicating or these
hidden agendas are actually safer. Now, you might have even noticed, for
example, your parents doing this when you were growing up. They may have
had hidden agendas. They may have wanted something from you or wanted
you to do something, but they werenāt direct about it. And thatās
confusing to a kid, and it can actually become a learned behavior. So I
was thinking about just the psychology around going back to this person
who reached out to me, just the psychology around that.
00:10:37 Gino Wickman
This happens every once in a while when we do an episode. And when in
the topic, you know, youāre seeing it from one dimension, and Iām seeing
it from another. So I want to see if weāre clear on whatās happening
here. And Iām thinking about the person listening in or watching right
now. So itās funny because, you know, weāre talking about people with
hidden agendas, and youāre kind of getting into the psychology of that,
and Iām getting into the logical time management of it. And so, you
know, anybody listening in or watching, just know that thatās whatās
going on right now. And I think thereās this beautiful seeing both
dimensions of it that can be really powerful.
00:11:14 Gino Wickman
So Iāll share three things that what youāre saying prompts, and then
letās see where we go with this. So again, Iām going to go back to this
very logical, tangible thing because Iām backing into smoking it out. So
whenever, in addition to Karen screening all these potential meetings
and calls, she gets clear on the objective. And then whenever we start
the call, so when, like with your friend, when you jumped on that call,
the first thing out of my mouth is I confirm how much time we have. And
then I say, so whatās the objective? Like, give me your dream outcome at
the end of this call. What are you hoping will happen? And so thatās my
opportunity to find out, does the objective they told Karen match with
what weāre here to talk about today? So thatās how I start to smoke out
hidden agendas.
00:11:59 Gino Wickman
But this is the thing I want to say coming at it from this logical time
management, know your 100% standpoint. And that is, I donāt care about
their psychological issues and their wounding. Itās like, I donāt have
time to solve their healing. And this is where I love. Youāre going to
come back in with, again, the psychological side of things. So, you
know, with all of these requests, if theyāre coming in with a hidden
agenda because of, you know, something that happened at seven years old
and they fear rejection, I donāt have time to deal with that, you know?
And so sometimes I can be very direct in terms of, you know, thatās not
something I can help you with. And so Iām going to redirect you. And
sometimes the call ends in 10 minutes, and weāre scheduled for an hour
because I discover the hidden agenda. So if that makes sense, Iām coming
at it from a time management logical standpoint, and weāre coming at
this from two different directions. And if everybodyās caught up and
that makes sense to you, Iām going to turn it back over to you.
00:12:52 Rob Dube
Yeah. Well, and what I would say for the listener is I hope that youāll
look inside of yourself and notice your own personal agendas, your own
hidden agendas, excuse me. So thatās really where Iām not asking anybody
to psychoanalyze people that are reaching out to you, although youāve
got some great practical things, and I highly recommend all of them. But
what Iām saying is where do you have hidden agendas in your life? And I
wanted to tie this back in also into our personal lives because a lot of
times we have personal hidden agendas in our families and with our kids.
If you have kids or your parents, you know, if theyāre still around or,
you know, siblings, et cetera, and weāre not direct with them. And I
think that is one of the keys that I wanted to bring up here and circle
that.
00:13:40 Gino Wickman
For sure. And again, I want to spend time on the psychology as well as
the logical side. Iām just making sure weāre all aware of whatās going
on here so it doesnāt get confusing because it could get confusing. So
let me just touch on two psychological sides of what youāre talking
about.
00:13:54 Gino Wickman
And I love that you brought up family because, yes, itās when you say
that, itās like I can see a couple, three examples of hidden agendas.
And I canāt give specifics because itās not fair, but one in particular
comes to mind. And what I find that Iām really good at doing when the
person is capable of having the conversation is calling out the hidden
agenda.
00:14:15 Gino Wickman
And sometimes I have to get a little bit creative to get there, but it
turns ugly sometimes, you know, once we expose whatās really going on or
the entanglement or the tangled web going on inside of that hidden
agenda. So hopefully that prompts something. And then I just want to say
one other thing.
00:14:35 Gino Wickman
The second thing I would say on the psychological side, Iām hoping my
point came across because, again, whenever I start that phone call, that
Zoom call, or that meeting, I start with the objective to cut through
all of those hidden agendas, to leave them at the door, and to sometimes
addressing the hidden agenda or the psychology behind it or their issues
is not a smart thing to do.
00:15:01 Gino Wickman
And so youāre putting, but now weāre, you were getting into ourselves
because now I can think back to the 1,000 phone calls, Zoom calls, and
meetings Iāve had to schedule. And in the early days, when I was
insecure and scared and wounded and a nobody trying to get an
appointment and a call with somebody, yeah, sometimes I might bend the
truth a little bit to get my foot in that door, you know, go to a coffee
shop meeting with a friend to slip in this new EOS thing that Iām doing,
you know? So thatās, Iām guilty of the same thing.
00:15:34 Rob Dube
Yeah, right. And that was my hope is that we could kind of bring that to
the forefront. And even when we have our own best intentions, are we
doing that from time to time, both in business and with our family? And
I love that you mentioned with your family, you have to get creative
sometimes, if I heard that right. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:53 Rob Dube
And sometimes it gets messy, right? And so the question is, are we
afraid for it to get messy? Because we donāt want to have conflict
because we want what we want, and weāre trying to get there without
conflict because we fear that. And what I would suggest is what youāre
doing is go there, get into the conflict. I think it actually
strengthens your relationship. Hopefully, in the long term, that doesnāt
mean youāre going to always kiss and make up. It might actually mean
your relationship is strained, you know, but that can actually
strengthen it.
00:16:30 Gino Wickman
Well, and some relationships. I mean, if youāre really going to go there
because some hidden agendas are so dysfunctional, that relationship is
not good for you.
00:16:38 Gino Wickman
So what this is prompting for me as well, as I talk about, you know,
this last 30 years and God knows how many meetings and Zoom calls and
phone calls Iāve scheduled, thereās no question as I have gained
confidence, as I have shed layers, as I have built more financial
independence and more security, you know? So if you think of it as a
timeline back to when I was flat broke, $200,000 in debt, you know, now,
whatever that was 25 years ago to now, you know, Iāve gotten better at
this.
00:17:10 Gino Wickman
Iāve learned more. Iāve gotten courage where, you know, I was scared to
death back then. Now I have this level of confidence and security. So
wherever you are out there on your journey, you know, donāt feel guilty
that you werenāt perfect. And maybe there was a little bit of a hidden
agenda, but do your best to move the needle to be honest in every
situation.
00:17:31 Gino Wickman
Because now I look at where I am today, I am pretty damn honest about my
agenda with everyone because partly I have the luxury to be, but also I
have the courage to be. And Iām just ready to go there and, you know,
clean up all the messes in my life. I donāt want dysfunctional
relationships.
00:17:49 Rob Dube
Yeah. I appreciate having been part of meetings with you and where you
just right out of the gates, as you said earlier, start the meeting very
clearly so everybodyās on the same page. And it really does make
everything go so much more smoothly. So Iāve learned a lot from you as
far as that goes. All right. Anything else coming up for you on this
topic?
00:18:13 Gino Wickman
I feel weāve said it all, Mr.
00:18:14 Rob Dube
Okay, my friend. All right. So I do have a takeaway, maybe for you, the
listener, before a meeting, before a call, before an interaction in your
life, maybe just pause, ask yourself, what energy am I bringing into
this right now? And notice whether it comes from an openness, from love,
or control. Because the more awareness you bring to your energy, the
more naturally your life will align with peace and authenticity. And
this is everything that we talk about in SHINE.
00:18:43 Rob Dube
All right, Gino, thanks again. And thank you all for joining us. And
weāll see you next time. Stay focused and much love.
00:18:51 Gino Wickman
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the
time to spend with us. And please tune in for the next episode. Until
then, we wish you all the best in freeing your true self. Stay focused
and much love.
