Gino Wickman (00:00):
In my outer world, things look very organized and tidied up. But inside, what I've learned now in this last five years is being human is messy.
Rob Dube (00:14):
Hello, everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, good to see you.
Gino Wickman (00:33):
Good to see you as well, my friend.
Rob Dube (00:36):
We're at the coffee shop.
Gino Wickman (00:37):
We're at the coffee shop.
Rob Dube (00:39):
What do you have to say about that?
Gino Wickman (00:40):
Well, here's what I have to say about that. The same fricking thing I say every time we do a coffee shop conversation, and that is reminding our audience what the hell this thing is we're about to do.
(00:50):
And so what this is, is for years and hours, Rob and I have sat in a coffee shop couple times a year, probably 20 years plus now, and we just have these amazing conversations. We're in there for a half a day or more, and we just talk about everything and anything that comes up. And so that has found its way into our podcast, and that's what we're about to do today.
(01:16):
The audience is listening in on our Coffee Shop Conversation. The way it works is one of us picks the first topic and then we alternate. We usually get through only about two topics, but nonetheless, today is your day to pick first, and so the floor is yours.
Rob Dube (01:30):
Okay. First, I always have a list that I think about before, and I don't know why I do it, because 10 minutes before I change my mind and come up with something completely different. And so what I want to ask you today is what do you want out of life at this point in your life?
Gino Wickman (01:49):
What the what?
Rob Dube (01:53):
Do you have anything easier, Rob? Do we have to start there?
Gino Wickman (01:57):
Oh man, what do I want out of life? Now, the good news is we're asking each other this question. I'm going to go first, but I trust you're going to answer the question as well.
Rob Dube (02:09):
No, I'm not.
Gino Wickman (02:10):
And I'm stalling because I really want to think about this. All right, so you got to give me a second here.
Rob Dube (02:15):
Take your time.
Gino Wickman (02:16):
I'm not feeling very spontaneous today, but I do have an answer. I want to be a great-grandpa, or papa as I'm called. So I have three grandchildren, love them to death, they're a blast, and so that comes to the top of the list.
(02:38):
I want to be a great husband. I want to be the absolute best version of myself for everyone. And right now, what's going on for me there is this nother level, and I shared this in a previous episode, of just this nother level of depth in terms of honesty and authenticity. Words can't even describe it.
(03:10):
But again, that's all within being the best version of myself and the most authentic version of myself for everyone in my life, whatever that means and whatever the pros and cons are of that.
(03:24):
And then the last thing that comes to mind, and then I look forward to your probable digging into all of this, is that overriding number, and I don't know why it keeps coming to me, of 70 million. I want to impact 70 million people. I don't think it comes from ego, I don't know how it happens, it's just a number that keeps coming up, and that's what I want to do.
Rob Dube (03:54):
What is-
Gino Wickman (03:55):
And be.
Rob Dube (03:55):
What is messy in your life?
Gino Wickman (03:58):
Messy? Everything.
Rob Dube (03:59):
That's so great.
Gino Wickman (04:02):
Everything. In my outer world, things look very organized and tidied up, and they are. But inside, what I've learned now in this last five years is being human is messy. Life is messy.
(04:27):
I strived for 52 years for perfection and made myself crazy and angry and tense. And perfection just doesn't exist. And so I'm all done striving for perfection and I just want to live and be and have peace, and that is messy. And so relationships are messy and imperfect. That's personal, that's family, friends, business, all types of relationships.
(04:59):
My mind can be messy. So one day that I'm feeling very strongly about something, the next day I don't. And so I'm realizing is that there are all of these amazing, wonderful contradictions in life. And every day is not the same, and one day we're feeling this way and one day we're feeling that way, and that's the beauty of life is just to not get caught up and attached to those many thoughts and feelings and emotions and just kind of observe them. So I'll stop there and hopefully that was somewhat clear.
Rob Dube (05:38):
I think it was very clear, and I love that. So what's transpired for you? How far along in the non-perfection category are you?
Gino Wickman (05:52):
I mean, there's still a little bit in there. I would say it is substantially different and better. I mean, I love putting percentages on things, it's a wild-ass guess, but I would say I am 80% at peace with it and there's still 20% that I wrestle with.
Rob Dube (06:12):
What about in business for you? Where does perfection show up there and how have you been able to let go there?
Gino Wickman (06:19):
Yeah, I think business is closer to 90 to 95% there. So that is substantially better. It's my personal life, all aspects of my personal life that it's 80-20. So what's crazy is the business side of things has substantially more progressed.
Rob Dube (06:37):
Yeah, interesting. For me, I just hope I can be perfect someday.
Gino Wickman (06:46):
Well, good luck with that. I think I came up with my topic when it's my turn to pick a topic.
Rob Dube (06:50):
That was a joke. That was a joke.
Gino Wickman (06:51):
I know. I know it was.
Rob Dube (06:53):
Honestly, I just want to be free. And that means to me finding the piece that's already right smack in front of me and I can't see it enough. At least I know now that it is right there, it's just right there, and I know that something's in the way, which is my ego, it's my conscious mind, and I just want to be free because I think once I'm free, that everything else will fall into place exactly as it should.
Gino Wickman (07:25):
You're here, baby. You're here.
Rob Dube (07:25):
And so I even think about what do I want to be doing with my time?
Gino Wickman (07:29):
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dube (07:30):
And I have my days where I'm super clear, I know exactly the path, and then there's days where I'm like, "Who knows? Do what you're doing now. Do the best you could do with that now, and who knows what it'll be then? And be okay with that. Let things fall as they may." I was thinking a little bit about just my business career, and it makes no sense, none of it, when you think about it. It's hilarious.
Gino Wickman (08:04):
That's so good.
Rob Dube (08:06):
And it was like I was trying to control the whole thing the whole time, but nothing I tried to control actually happened, but all the other things that happened were really great.
Gino Wickman (08:15):
Well, there's the mindfuck, okay? Dual universes, if you go back in time, would anything be any different if you would've just let go 20 years ago? And there's probably a really good chance that it's all would've been the exact same thing and the anguish we caused ourselves trying to control it all when it was all just going to kind of happen and we just need to get out of the way and just kind of facilitate it.
Rob Dube (08:34):
Yeah. And I always feel like I should answer what's messy. I always feel like for me, in my life, anything that's been messy, I've been very fortunate, really fortunate with my wife and my kids, we've always had non-messy lives. I just feel so grateful.
(08:54):
I've had some messiness outside of that with my family, but it's not as messy as it used to be, it's actually cleaned up a lot through a lot of work. But business has always felt messy to me, always. And so that's where I always feel like, "Gosh, still feels messy." And then that's where I question like, "Okay, now you've realized that these days. What are you going to do about it? Do you want to stay in the mess? Do you want to go? Is life," as you said, "is part of the mess?"
(09:25):
Business has taught me a lot about being as a human. It is messy. There are days, my grandmother, I called her Mamay, I'd say, "How are you?" And she'd say, "Good days, bad days." And I would go, "Why do you say that? Why do you say good days, bad days?" I felt bad for her, and now I get it. It's like, "Yeah, some days are good, some days aren't so good." That's all she was saying. There's such wisdom in there, so.
Gino Wickman (09:55):
Yeah. Just a thought on the messiness. So what's different for me, again, I gave the percentages, is that the messiness, I'm just not as attached to the messiness, and that's where the anguish came from is riding every wave, being attached to every mess, my identity being attached to every mess. And so to be able to float above that and just kind of observe it, experience it, and learn from it. That's the other big thing, is there's a lesson in all of it and just keep learning from it and just keep floating forward. It's a quantum leap. Still work in progress, but quantum leap.
Rob Dube (10:31):
I think, yeah, to me, that actually is such great wisdom because it's just stuff happening. When I think about business, even in my personal life too, when something doesn't go a particular way, I just try to think to myself, "This is just stuff. Seriously. Is it that serious?" I know some things have greater, I don't want to make light of everything, but yeah, I think when you can ebb and flow and just realize that that's the way life is, and it is always a chance for a lesson, even the good and bad things.
Gino Wickman (11:05):
Hear, hear, I'm with that. There still are problems. There's still... I get emotional. I yelled for the first time in business, and I don't know how many years, you witnessed it, with the deal we almost did with 10 Disciplines. It was very emotional, but I was so proud of how honest I was through that whole process. So I truly felt like I was at my absolute best in that experience. And my boundaries were clear. Anyway. My authenticity was clear. So for what that's worth, that was as real as it gets for me.
Rob Dube (11:39):
Yeah. Yeah. It's good. All right. What else you got?
Gino Wickman (11:42):
My turn. All right. So this one is just as heavy as that topic.
Rob Dube (11:48):
Oh.
Gino Wickman (11:49):
Okay, so what do I want out of life? This topic is about taking naps.
Rob Dube (12:01):
That's great.
Gino Wickman (12:01):
So watch the root of this topic.
Rob Dube (12:04):
Yes.
Gino Wickman (12:04):
So taking naps.
Rob Dube (12:05):
Awesome.
Gino Wickman (12:07):
So in our Shine meeting, again, I think most of you know out there, I hold a Shine meeting for just 25 people, and eight to 12, six to 12 show up. And so it's just a fun little experiment that I'm doing. And it's very fun and we just focus on all the content in Shine and we just have great conversation.
(12:27):
And so the topic of naps came up in that meeting. We're talking about all this deep stuff, [inaudible 00:12:33], all that. So anyway, so naps come up. Okay? And so you just have to chuckle at what a trite topic that would be, right? It was the hottest topic of the meeting.
(12:44):
And so there were eight, I think eight of us. So these are eight driven entrepreneurs, okay? And I'm going to try to get all the psychology out around this, as well as the meat and potatoes.
(12:57):
As we got into the topic, and it was one of the other attendees that brought up the topic, as we got into it, the first thing I shared was John F. Kennedy took a nap every single day. The president of our United States took a nap every single day running our country.
(13:15):
And then I also brought up this point that hit me about power naps. I love the insecurity and the ego around the term power nap because people are so embarrassed to say they take a nap that it's a power nap. "Oh, it's not a nap, it's a power nap." So that's comical to me.
(13:33):
But you would not believe the energy around this topic. And six out of eight take naps. And the recharging of the batteries and the energy. But with that, most of them either did want to, they didn't take it, but it was this permission you could see bubbling. The topic was a 15-minute topic. You could see the permission bubbling to the surface.
(13:59):
Because for me, couple things, I take a nap every Sunday and it is the greatest fucking thing on the planet. I look forward to my nap somewhere between 2:00 and 4:00. It completely recharges me, it resets me for the whole week, I get giddy about that.
(14:15):
I remember back in my twenties, I don't know why this was, but when I was selling real estate back in my twenties, I would go take a nap in the afternoon. I don't know if I was partying too hard back then or what it was, but I'd go find a parking lot, I would take a nap in my car for 20 minutes and come back so recharged for the second half of the day. And in those days I was working until 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 at night.
(14:38):
And then there are times now where I will take a nap. If I'm in my home office, all of a sudden, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00's open, I take this little 20 minute nap and it just totally recharges my battery.
(14:48):
And so as we're going around the table and everybody's sharing that it was the one person that brought it up that he really wants to start taking naps, and he's so embarrassed to do it and he's afraid to do it, he feels like people are going to judge him. And so then we got to this place of we're laughing because just imagine if everyone understood the power of a nap if you need one. Not everybody needs a nap.
(15:10):
And so I'm dying to hear your take on this and if you do it, because with your energy, I'm assuming you don't, so I can't wait to hear the answer. But where we got to is this place, imagine if people understood the benefit of a nap for those that need a nap.
(15:23):
And all of a sudden it becomes so comfortable and commonplace that somebody calls into the business at 2:30 for John, and the answer is, "He's taking his nap right now. He'll call you back when he wakes up." I mean, how great would that be? But what that nap does for that person in terms of the energy, and I know what it does for me, it's so powerful.
(15:44):
And so all that said, coming into the home stretch. So then I get a text three days after the meeting and one of them says, "I took a nap in my..." Because he has a business partner. His business partner has a couch in his office and he doesn't. So he sends me a text, "I took a nap in Blank's office today. It was so freaking awesome." So that is so funny, so good. So anyway, so naps. Tell me what you know, have experienced on that.
Rob Dube (16:07):
Well, first of all, I learned about it being okay to take a nap in the middle of the day from actually Howard Stern, because he would always talk about the nap he took.
Gino Wickman (16:19):
Ah, that's interesting.
Rob Dube (16:19):
And so I always said, "Wow, he's uber successful in his craft and he was like..." That nap, he would be talking about that nap. And he was like, "And they interrupted me during my nap." There'd be all these things that he would say over time, so-
Gino Wickman (16:34):
I love it.
Rob Dube (16:35):
... then that's when I was like, "Maybe naps can be really useful." You mentioned how great would it be if you called this company at 2:00 or whatever time. I think in Italy for example, and maybe other parts of Europe-
Gino Wickman (16:46):
Mexico.
Rob Dube (16:47):
... they do siesta.
Gino Wickman (16:47):
Siesta. Yeah, yeah.
Rob Dube (16:49):
And I've seen some documentaries on that and been very intrigued by that because I think there's a balance in life that they bring that maybe we don't have so much here in America all the time.
(17:01):
As far as me taking naps, I so badly want to be a person that takes a nap, and I have tried it, but I'm groggy. And so then people say, "Well, you're sleeping too long." But I've tried the different times and it still doesn't work.
(17:18):
Sometimes a shorter nap I feel okay, but then next time I don't. So I've definitely tried it. But my version of what kind of re-energizes me is I gave myself permission to take about 90 minutes in the middle of the day or around lunchtime and have a little bit of lunch and then go for a walk and get outside into nature, and that's really helped me. So that's my version of it.
Gino Wickman (17:46):
Beautiful. That's beautiful. Beautiful.
Rob Dube (17:47):
But yeah, that's hilarious.
Gino Wickman (17:49):
Yeah, and here's what comes to mind in closing on this topic is so for those of you out there that we've pinged your soul and you're a napper, start taking naps and report back to us. Okay? We're going to start a movement that it's acceptable for those of us that need to recharge. And by my scientific study of eight driven entrepreneurs, six out of eight, so 75% of the driven people need naps. Anyways, I'm making stuff up there.
(18:16):
But with that said, one last thing, new topic very quickly. This is our 101st episode. The 100th episode before this was me doing a riff, and knowing me, I probably would not celebrate that or say anything. So we've cracked 100 episodes. So face to face with you I want to celebrate that, congratulate you on that and us on that, and who would've thunk it?
Rob Dube (18:39):
Yeah. And thank you for listening to all of these episodes. It's been growing and it's remarkable actually.
Gino Wickman (18:44):
Remarkable.
Rob Dube (18:45):
And it's one of the favorite things, I know I feel honored to be able to do it and honored to be able to do it with you, so thank you, my friend.
Gino Wickman (18:54):
Right back at you, brother.
Rob Dube (18:54):
Appreciate you. All right, everybody. Thanks as always for joining us, and we'll see you next time. And as always, stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (19:02):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, we wish you all the best in freeing your True Self, stay focused, and much love.
