Gino Wickman (00:00):
And it's like it pains me in my heart when I see two people sitting in a restaurant and they're both on their phone.
Rob Dube (00:19):
Hello everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I am here with my good friend, Gino Wickman. Gino, good to see you.
Gino Wickman (00:27):
Good to see you.
Rob Dube (00:28):
Oh, I thought you were going to say good to be seen.
Gino Wickman (00:29):
Oh, shoot. Let's start over.
Rob Dube (00:32):
[inaudible 00:00:32].
Gino Wickman (00:32):
Good to be seen. Edit.
Rob Dube (00:33):
Much better. All right, today's episode we're going to discuss the topic of presence, i.e. being present, not like, can I have a present from you?
Gino Wickman (00:46):
Oh, then let me change my notes. Shoot, I thought we were talking about something different.
Rob Dube (00:49):
It depends, giving each other presents. So I'm talking about deep soul level presence that reveals itself to us when our minds are calm. This is the kind of presence where you might find there's almost no thought, no striving, no identities, just what is in this moment. Now, there's also, and misunderstood oftentimes, distinction between the presence and the ego that I'm hoping we're going to talk about. Presence is not something for us to achieve, it's what remains when we stop trying. So the ego is a master of effort, trying to heal, trying to awaken, trying to be good enough. But what happens when all that effort ceases?
(01:32):
We talk to driven people and effort is oftentimes what they're all about. What happens when you stop identifying with the voice in your head and you start resting in awareness? Now, how did this topic come up? Well, you read a book on your March, 2025 sabbatical, called the Journey Into Now, by Leonard Jacobson, and I followed your lead when you said it was good. I grabbed it, I read it. It was great. It's a great book and that's what led us to this topic. So before I jump in, does anything come up for you?
Gino Wickman (02:08):
Well, a whole bunch of stuff.
Rob Dube (02:09):
Good.
Gino Wickman (02:09):
So I don't know where to start. Do you want me to just start?
Rob Dube (02:13):
Yeah, I do.
Gino Wickman (02:13):
Because I don't want to knock you off your track.
Rob Dube (02:18):
No, no, no, I can always follow your lead.
Gino Wickman (02:19):
Awesome. So, I would add two more words to the conversation just to create a bigger context, and that is awareness and consciousness. So presence, awareness, and consciousness is what we're talking about here. We're going to keep using the word presence, but I just want to expand that because what we're talking about here is discovery, number two, decisions are made out of love or fear. And level four, which is awareness. And as Eckhart Tolle teaches us, with awareness comes transformation and freedom, and that's the magic that comes when we are present. So we might interchange those words, but we're going to use presence throughout the conversation.
(03:02):
And I love that you brought up the book. I wasn't sure if you were going to, because there's something he shared in the book that I thought was so profoundly simple because it is truly one of the best books I've ever read on presence and making this point about awareness. And he talks about, "When we park our car in the garage and walk from the garage to the kitchen", he says, "that is a perfect opportunity to practice presence, because why in the hell do you need to think from the garage to the kitchen? And so just that one minute walk every day, just practice being present, don't think about anything. And that's like the beginning to fully experiencing this." I thought that was very profound, something to consider.
(03:45):
Next thing that it prompted is I was having this awesome conversation with a friend yesterday and he had an aha, and the culmination of the story is presence because his aha now is that when he's doing a hobby that he loves or he's involved in a project at work, or even at home where he loses himself in that hobby, or that project, or that thing, that is presence. That's being fully engaged. That's being fully focused. That's being in the zone, that's flow. And so it was very powerful for him to just have that aha, because then I had an aha, and I realized that's when certainly in meditation and all my stillness practices, I experience it, but then to experience it while doing, for lack of a better term, "Oh, that's like the icing on the cake", that then led to a thought. This gentleman would describe that word, when we do the things that we love to do and we get lost in, it's called pottering. So if you look it up, that's a real word. But pottering, some people love to garden, some people love to write, some people love to, whatever it is, it's just pottering.
(04:59):
So I wanted to throw that word out there for fun. And then I think the last thing I'll share is in a conversation with someone you enjoy being with, a loved one, friends, family, another opportunity for presence or to be aware of being present, is to practice being present with them because that's when you fully and truly connect. I think about when you and I would sit in the coffee shop and we would talk, we're just totally connected to each other, totally focused on each other, totally present. And you can feel that. And it's like it pains me in my heart when I see two people sitting in a restaurant and they're both on their phone. And it's who am I to judge? And so there's judgment coming forward, but I share that just to give a polar opposite example.
(05:51):
So just you out there, I urge you to think about those times that you've been in conversation where you're just totally focused and present, and just think about how many more times we can do that in our lives and really connect with people, really be present. So I just wanted to hit all the different angles, dimensions, thoughts, and I'd love to hear what then that prompts for you.
Rob Dube (06:10):
Yeah. Well first, how can you tap into it when you're walking? I love the example that you use, walking from the car to the garage to the kitchen. And I like to always think, and you share this similar story yourself, is when your kids are born, and you are fully present. If you have kids and you were there when they were born, you know that you are as present as I can imagine you can be in any moment. So, I always like to think back to that moment, and what was that feeling? And that's a feeling of being fully present, fully awakened.
(06:50):
I love that you talked about in conversation. I love that you talked about hobbies, people that are lost in whatever it is that they're doing. It doesn't even need to be a hobby. Sometimes we get lost in our work. I have. I'll sit down, I'll say I'm going to do something for 20 minutes, and next thing you know it's two hours that I'm into it and I'm lost. I'm fully present, I'm just so embodied with it. And of course, if you have the ability to get silent to whether it's on a daily basis or going on a retreat, or something like that, my experience, I thought I would just share fully awakened presence during medicine journeys. Wow. I mean, fully awakened. I can recall coming out and looking out into nature where I was and seeing the trees talk to me, and just feeling so connected, and nothing else was happening.
Gino Wickman (07:51):
Well, and that prompts a whole bunch of things for me. So I'm going to come back to what I mentioned a minute ago, and that is, again, what we're talking about here, discovery number two, level four, awareness. And it's really being aware and present of everything going on. So you're feeling all the sensations in your body and you're being aware of everything going on around you and feeling connected to that. And so what came to me is in that, so just imagine being completely aware and maybe take yourself to a place. So you actually grabbed one of mine because yes, when my kids were born, it's indescribable that feeling. But it had to be that I was just so lost in the moment and so present with that experience that it was just pure love. That's the only way I can describe it, the sensation, just total and absolute presence.
(08:49):
And then the other examples that come to mind is as an EOS implementer, working with my clients in the session room, as crazy as it sounds, every session I get a runner's high somewhere during the session, and that is where I'm just lost in the session. So engaged, so present, so aware, so focused that I just literally get this high where I see every flinch, I can read every single person's energy in the room. So just imagine that presence and how you can do that. Another thought that comes to me is at family gatherings, what I've been doing now the last couple of years, is it used to like, I'm an introvert, I don't love this small talk, it's kind of irritating to me and it'd be overwhelming to me, and there's all this commotion. And now what I do is I just sit there and I observe it all, and it's just so peaceful and it's so enjoyable. And then in conversations, they're much more engaged. It's really interesting because I'm feeling it in my body so well now.
(09:47):
And then with that, a fun thing to pay attention to is in those conversations, being that present, then pay attention to when your ego kicks in, because that's always fun. It's like you're feeling this amazing presence and all of a sudden, bye-bye. You're gone, and they said something or something moved behind them. And so very guilty. I'm guilty of that happening. And then I do want to, when you mention medicine journeys and hallucinogenics, again, what's happening if and when someone ever does something like that, it's just turning your ego off. So just imagine that thing that gets so distracted, gets turned off for a couple of hours. So you absolutely are experiencing complete focus for two straight hours because your ego doesn't work for that period of time.
(10:36):
So yeah, it's a great way to experience that. But I always just like to give the disclaimer, you can get there in meditation, you can get there in prayer, you can get there in all of these stillness practices as well. You don't need that to get there, but at least it gives you a great glimpse if your ego's too strong to turn off, if not for that walk from the car to the kitchen as we talked about.
Rob Dube (10:58):
It's a great practice.
Gino Wickman (10:58):
Yeah.
Rob Dube (10:59):
The author, Leonard Jacobson, I love this definition he had, so I wanted to share that with the audience. "A state of consciousness in which a person is fully present in the current moment, free from the distractions of past regrets or future anxieties, in this state the mind becomes still, and one experiences life directly without the interference of habitual thoughts, judgments or the ego." So you captured that in everything that you were sharing.
Gino Wickman (10:59):
So good, so good, so good.
Rob Dube (11:36):
The ego, I don't know, is the ego all bad? Because it makes it sound like the ego's bad.
Gino Wickman (11:40):
Yeah, and we talked about that in the previous episode and certainly other episodes as well. And I did a complete full, I think, 15 minute riff on the ego. So go back and listen to that riff. The ego is not bad. The ego's intentions are good. The ego is really good for helping us think and strategize and solve problems. You just can't let your ego run the show, because left on its own, if you let go and let your ego control you, it will run the show. It will protect you from everything on the planet. You will be trapped in a prison and you will not fully be you. So the ego is good, its intentions are good. It's trying to protect you. It used to protect us from saber-toothed tigers. But you only need a small percentage of that use, and it's about just managing that ego, getting it to relax, and using it for what it's very valuable for, and not letting it run your life.
Rob Dube (12:36):
That's good, that's good. So before we wrap, I love this, I want to bring it up. This will be the third time this practice that maybe you all will incorporate for the next couple of days or week, or who knows, maybe even longer. Maybe you'll practice awakened presence as you walk from the garage to the kitchen, or whatever your version is of making a transition.
Gino Wickman (12:59):
30 minutes of meditation.
Rob Dube (13:02):
There you go. Gino, any last words?
Gino Wickman (13:04):
That's it. Try 30 minutes of meditation, start with 10, then go to 20, then go to 30. But that is magic. Any stillness practice for 30 minutes a day, you will experience presence, awareness, consciousness, and all these beautiful benefits we're talking about.
Rob Dube (13:17):
I love it. I love it. And I need to mention, I'm going to hold this up to the camera for those that are watching on YouTube. We have these stickers, and if you're not watching, imagine a circle sticker with the True Self in the middle and the 10 Disciplines surrounding it. What happened was people were asking us, "I wish I had something I could put on my desk or on my laptop", and those types of things, and so we made these stickers and they've become very popular, but we never talk about them, we just hand them out at events or when we see people. But we're going to give you the opportunity to have us send you one.
(13:51):
So if you're interested, just email us at [email protected], you include your name and your address, and we'll ship one out to you. And you can pop it on your laptop or wherever, and it'll always be at the forefront. And with that, thank you all for joining us as always, and we'll see you next time. And stay focused, and much love.
Gino Wickman (14:13):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program.
(14:43):
We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused, and much love.
