Gino Wickman (00:00):
As a driven person, as an entrepreneur, I love my mind. I've built some really great stuff for three decades with this mind.
Rob Dube (00:23):
Hello, everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, good to see you. Good to see you, that eyeball.
Gino Wickman (00:30):
I'm feeling silly on this one.
Rob Dube (00:35):
That eyeball. I love it. I love it
Gino Wickman (00:35):
Feeling silly.
Rob Dube (00:37):
Well, that's because we're going to shine light on a space most of us live in all too often, which is our own minds. So, for driven people, like you all listening, the mind can be brilliant at times. I know you all have brilliant minds. But at other times it's an endless source of chatter. When I go out and do talks, I like to ask the audience, how many of you have busy minds? And 100% of the time, every hand goes up and they go up fast. And then I ask, how many of you would like to settle your mind? And of course, 100% of the hands go up. So, obviously, on the positive side of things, your mind helps you craft vision, solve problems, and challenge yourself to grow and expand, but it can also trap you in loops of overthinking, fear and self-judgment.
(01:25):
So, Gino, what I'd like to do with you on this episode is explore why awareness of the mind can be a gateway actually to freeing your True Self. How to practice being an observer of your mind, rather than the prisoner of your thoughts. And what to do when that inner noise inside your head gets loud, especially on tough days. So, Gino, you're a zombie.
Gino Wickman (01:52):
I turned off my mind.
Rob Dube (01:54):
Yeah, there you go.
Gino Wickman (01:57):
So, I'm eager to share something, because I started... I'll sit here and take notes sometimes as you're talking. And as we started this, I knew what we were going to talk about. My legal pad was blank. And I said, for this one, I'm not going to write anything. And when I finished that sentence, something came through so clearly to me and I want to read exactly what I wrote. And I think this might be my mind giving an impassioned plea right now, but I wrote, "I love my mind. I want to spend every minute with my mind, thinking, strategizing, solving, coming up with ideas. I love my mind. I have built a lot with my mind." Now, that is my mind saying that. Let's be aware of who's saying that.
(02:54):
I typically don't feel peace when I spend all of my time in there. When I spend time in my body, my heart is when I feel peace and I get better ideas, better solutions. So, for what that's worth, as a driven person, as an entrepreneur, I love my mind. I've built some really great stuff for three decades with this mind, but I realize that it's just a tool now. But sometimes, man, it just seems a lot easier to just spend all day in my mind. And if nothing else, I'm hoping that resonates with someone out there that's sitting there going, "Shit, it's fun being in my mind." I get that, but there's more.
Rob Dube (03:42):
Okay. So, Gino, how are you intentional about getting out of your mind?
Gino Wickman (03:47):
Meditation, journaling, contemplation, prayer. So, stillness. Stillness gets me out of my mind.
Rob Dube (03:48):
Discipline number four, be still. Bes still.
Gino Wickman (03:57):
Hey, what a concept.
Rob Dube (03:57):
Now, okay. How about in a practical sense, when you are just going throughout your day, where you're not intentional about that be still, but then how does that show up? How do you notice I'm in my mind right now?
Gino Wickman (04:13):
Well, the best way I can describe it is going back to five years ago when I kind of had my awareness, my awakening, and my aha. I started to really understand the mind and the ego. And I started to really see how it works. And so, now I'm so aware of it, it's just natural. I know when I'm in my body. It's a completely different feeling. And I know when I'm in my mind. Again, it's not always perfect, so please, I'm on this journey just like everybody else is. But it's a very different feeling and they're both powerful. So, I use both, but I'm just aware that all of a sudden something just felt different. And I went up here and it's almost like a disconnection. But nonetheless, it's still good to go up there and use it for strategizing.
Rob Dube (05:01):
So, you brought up an interesting point about the body. Some philosophies actually call it the mind-body. So, it's as if your body is a mind as well. We talk about embodying things, meaning in the body. So, let's just say you are in your head-mind and then you say, "I bring it into my body." Can you talk from a practical sense on that one?
Gino Wickman (05:27):
Well, I just like right now, just at this moment, that one minute or 30 seconds that you just talked, I went up in my mind, down in my body, up in my mind. So, I'm just aware of when it's happening. And so, when I start to tune out, because I start thinking about something you said, I've gone into my mind. When I stay very focused and present in the moment, I'm in my body, I'm in my heart. And so, that's like an example of real time when it's happening. Then I just want to grab something you said, because this is where I got distracted and went into my mind. When you about mind-body and the statement mindfulness, I will tell you, I still don't get that. But this is where we have to be careful not to get caught up in words, because how is mindfulness meditation? We're supposed to be out of our minds, but it's called mindfulness. So, that's a little screwy and confusing to me.
(06:16):
And mind-body is also a little screwy and confusing to me, but we don't have to debate the words. In its simplest form, the way we're teaching it to the world is when you're up here in your mind, in your head, that's the ego at work. And when you're down here in your body, in your heart, that's your True Self and your soul at work. And just know which one is online at any given time. And when it's in your head, just be really careful that your ego is not running the show.
Rob Dube (06:45):
Yeah. I mean, sometimes you have to be in your mind. I mean, your mind is a valuable tool. And as Gino said, and as you are all very aware, it helps you solve some very deep problems and that's important. But I love what you're saying about going into your body, back into your mind, and kind of going back and forth. Because, for example, in meditation, I've been doing this for over 20 years. I've realized actually recently I just got back from a retreat. And I've spent a year of my life in retreat. That blew my mind.
Gino Wickman (07:18):
Wow. Damn.
Rob Dube (07:20):
A year of my life, I'm 55. So, 54 or one year I was, obviously. But what you learn to do is you're in your mind. Now, you could come down into your body and feel into your body, and understand, and connect with certain feelings or emotions that will tell you maybe a little bit more of a story. Just intuitively, it will tell you. So, it's like, you get quiet. I think you like to say a lot of times something along the lines of get quiet and the answer will come. I love when you say that, because it's so true. And so, you notice your thinking, you notice these thoughts.
(07:57):
And what I would encourage the listener to do is then say, "I'm thinking, let me go down into my body for a moment and notice what is coming up for me when I do that." Maybe you'll feel your heart center, which might be evoking some pain or some love. And it might be telling you something around that. So, these are things that I think where you bring it all together, because I don't want to vilify the mind. The mind is actually-
Gino Wickman (08:25):
Hear, hear.
Rob Dube (08:25):
... like look at what you've created over all these years. It's amazing.
Gino Wickman (08:29):
Hear, hear. I'm going to just piggyback something on that, because we have an episode on intuitive decision making or running your business on intuition. And the process is starting in your mind, and getting clear on what the issue is you're facing, and then dropping down in your body and feeling the right solution, and then back up to your mind to then make the decision. That's using both really well and it's just understanding when you're using them. And then the last thing I want to say is, or part of that, to piggyback on that. For me, it was probably three and a half years ago when I really and truly got the ego and the masterful structure that the ego creates to protect us.
(09:10):
It was gross. It's the only way I can describe it is gross. And while we describe it well in our book Shine, where it came the clearest to me prior to that is in Michael Singer's book, Untethered Soul. He describes it in such a way where you just see it. And that when it's online and you're running every decision through the ego structure that's being created, that's when the ego has you held prisoner and you're not using your mind for good.
Rob Dube (09:45):
Yeah, yeah. So, let me ask you this, because you are an amazing speaker.
Gino Wickman (09:51):
Well, thank you.
Rob Dube (09:52):
I love watching you do talks. And personally, I imagine a day where I could go on stage to do a talk with no agenda, no topic, and just start talking to a huge audience with no prompts or questions. So, I don't want to assume this, but have you ever done this?
Gino Wickman (10:12):
I have never done that. I too have the same dream, belief, expectation that that will happen someday, but it has not happened yet. Where it does happen and has happened is when I show up to be a guest on a podcast episode or when I show up for Q&A. It's completely unscripted, unprepared from my body's soul and True Self. And so, I look forward to the day that I can deliver a talk from that place, but I've not done it yet.
Rob Dube (10:47):
Yeah. You just sit down. And whatever starts coming out, just starts coming out, and then you're just flowing, and floating and flowing. I [inaudible 00:10:56] you do that, by the way.
Gino Wickman (10:57):
And I would suggest the closest I've gotten was the most recent talk you saw me do. And I would suggest that 30% of that talk was completely free flowing. And then 70%, unfortunately, was prepared in my mind.
Rob Dube (11:15):
Well, you are a planner. You're very meticulous. So, that's why that was [inaudible 00:11:19].
Gino Wickman (11:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. But that is like a Richter scal.e that is monumental in terms of where I started, because in the first 10 to 20 years of speaking, it was 100% all from my mind.
Rob Dube (11:30):
So, I wanted to share something recently. And maybe this will prompt something for you or maybe not, where my mind seemed to be running the show. I was actually in a therapy session and I was feeling pretty good. I didn't really have much to say. And so, I'm sitting there and I start talking about some things that were going on at work. And I really was in my head. And I'm 15 minutes in and I'm looking at my therapist. And he knows me well. And he's kind of moving around, he's shifting. And that shifting, I feel like he does it on purpose. He's like that. He knows.
Gino Wickman (11:30):
That's good. Good.
Rob Dube (12:06):
And I start observing my thoughts as I'm seeing him. And I'm like, what the heck am I talking about right now? This is so ridiculous. It's so silly and meaningless. And it was just a great moment for me to notice this drama that I was creating for absolutely no reason. And to actually reset, and to settle, and to get back into my body, into full presence and be in the present moment right here, right now and just breathe. And so, does that prompt anything for you?
Gino Wickman (12:40):
It really honestly doesn't, because that's like, you can drop the mic on that one for the point you're making. There's nothing I can add.
Rob Dube (12:49):
Okay. What else is coming up for you on this topic?
Gino Wickman (12:53):
I believe it is possible to operate 100% from our True Self, from our soul. And I know I'm working toward that every day. And I know I keep getting closer, and closer, and closer to that. It's still a small percentage. And the awareness, just starting with the awareness and paying attention. Again, just like in this episode, I'm so clear when I was in my head. I'm so clear when I'm in my body. And right now I am so in my body, I can feel it. It's the most incredible feeling. And ultimately, I believe that's the ultimate destination for us. And I believe it's possible.
Rob Dube (13:46):
Yeah. For the listener, I'll just kind of maybe end on this. Think about Discipline number four, be still. Taking time to settle is useful when you're in your mind. And I want to encourage you to remember that you're human, so this is all normal stuff and nobody's great at it. The mind gets going, so we got to accept it. And you don't need to push your thoughts away. Gino just said it's about awareness. Let's just say you're having some painful thoughts. Be with the pain. And if you're experiencing that, just be with it. That's just a practice, because if you try to push it away, you're just fueling the fire and it doesn't work. And the other thing that was coming to mind for me is slow down and breathe. And breathing is so useful and we forget about it. It's like the thing that just we don't ever think about, but it is so helpful.
(14:43):
And I wanted to share a great breathing technique that Dr. Andrew Weil teaches. And there's other ones too, so you can find different ones, but I'll just share this one because I find it useful. And it's called 4-7-8, or he calls it relaxing the breath. And you can just simply go to YouTube or wherever and search Dr. Andrew Weil 4-7-8 breath technique. And you will find this will be a really simple 30-second way to kind of reset, get out of your mind and into your body. Remember, when kids are having a tantrum, what do you do? You sit them down in a chair, you have them settle, and you tell them what? Breathe. Take a deep breath. So, what happens when we become adults? We don't take our own advice. We need to do that and it will pass. It's like clouds in the sky, waves in the ocean.
Gino Wickman (15:35):
One more thing I want to add, because then this came to me after that little mini riff there. And that is, what dawned on me, that place that I was in as I was sharing that fully in my body, in that place, we are fully connected. So, connected to what? A lot of different variations of what that means. But if nothing else, we're connected to each other. I believe we're all connected. But in that place, when I was there, it felt so amazing and I felt connected to everything. And so, that's another benefit of being in that place. But what then came so clearly as well is that when we go up into our mind, we completely disconnect. So, for what that's worth.
Rob Dube (16:21):
That's worth a lot and it's a good place to end. Thank you, Gino. That was beautiful. And so, for all you listening, thank you so much for joining us. And we'll see you next time. Stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (16:35):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us. And please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self-assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
