Gino Wickman (00:00):
The most important discipline. It's probably like the end game. It's what we're teaching is we're teaching people how to fully, freely be their True Self in this world. And so that's ultimately where we're taking them.
Rob Dube (00:25):
Hello, everyone. My name is Rob Dube. Guess who I'm here with? Gino Wickman.
Gino Wickman (00:30):
I was so excited.
Rob Dube (00:31):
When did you get here?
Gino Wickman (00:32):
I thought there was somebody else. So it's just me. Okay.
Rob Dube (00:36):
Yeah. It's just you. Sorry to disappoint everyone.
Gino Wickman (00:38):
Turned it. I thought we had a guest today.
Rob Dube (00:39):
I know you all want to hear me. But anyway. Gino, today we're going to revisit Discipline number three, which is know thyself. So let me start off by saying this. We remind readers in our book Shine that the Greeks etched know thyself at the temple of Apollo at Delphi. Now they didn't do this to remind all who entered to recognize their own limit. They did do this, excuse me, to remind all who entered to recognize their own limits, understand their abilities, and accept their place in this world. Essentially to know oneself as immortal and not divine. It encouraged humility and self-awareness before seeking advice from the gods, emphasizing that true wisdom begins with self-knowledge.
(01:23):
So this can actually be a very deep topic and there are many winding paths to know thyself better. Now we write about simple things, like in the book, taking personality profiles. Asking people close to you in your life to share your greatest strengths and weaknesses. Asking people to rate you how humble you are. Doing things like going to therapy. Okay, now going a little bit deeper, maybe doing energy work, deep prayer or meditation, or even looking at things like psychedelics all are paths that people can go down to know thyself better. So before I continue, let me pause. Gino, is anything coming up for you?
Gino Wickman (02:04):
Well I'm going to hold what's coming up for me because I think what you're about to share next, whatever that is, is the better place to go before I say what I want to say.
Rob Dube (02:15):
Well I was going to start actually by asking you what practice or practices has most helped you recognize for yourself to know thyself, your limits, your abilities, and most importantly your place in this world?
Gino Wickman (02:31):
All right. Well there's the perfect tee up to what I want to say.
Rob Dube (02:34):
Oh, good.
Gino Wickman (02:35):
So again, the Discipline is called know thyself and I always lovingly like to say, to fully be your True Self and free your True Self you've got to know thyself first. And so as you embark on this journey, and so you're asking me about me and that's where I want to end with this, I just think about in my 20s, my 30s, my 40s, my 50s, it was in my 20s when I started to embark on various profiling tools and introspectively looking at myself, but it was still all outer world stuff and if you think of this as a process or a slowly chiseling and working your way to the center, I really believe that it does start with learning your skills and abilities. And so I think about a young person, age 15, age 20, age 25, age 30, you got to start by starting to really understand and learn your skills and abilities.
(03:33):
And then there's this wonderful journey, whatever age you start, is to then start to go a little deeper and understand strengths and weaknesses and there's a lot of power in understanding what your gifts are and then weaknesses are all about avoiding them, not trying to strengthen them. So understanding that. Then it's understanding personality and traits and then it's getting to the really good stuff and that is energetic blocks, releasing them, freeing your True Self. And so I say all of that because I think everyone out there is at a different place, is at a different level with this and I think it's sometimes scary or dangerous to jump all the way to hey, shed all your shit and you'll know thyself and be thyself because for some out there, you just need to start by better understanding your skills and abilities. That's okay. It's okay to focus on outer world stuff.
(04:22):
You don't have to jump to the inner world stuff. But with that context, I just don't want people to lose sight of the ultimate end game because this Discipline know thyself, it's like it's probably the most important Discipline. It's probably like the end game. It's what we're teaching is we're teaching people how to fully, freely be their True Self in this world. And so that's ultimately where we're taking them. And I certainly want to hit all of that in this conversation, but nonetheless, getting there is where then you are 100% fully free, your True Self and you're floating through life. So with that, as I share that context, I can share lots of examples. Again, like I said, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, how just simply taking a profiling tool and understanding that I'm an introvert and embracing that and learning that there's nothing wrong with me, that was very powerful.
(05:19):
And again, it might seem so minor in the grand scheme of things, but that shifts everything or it shifted everything in my life when I really understood that about myself when I see extroverts in action and it's less appealing to me and I would become insecure because I was not extroverted like that, I'm more introverted. So again, it's just that, again, know thyself, know thyself. So we can get into lots of examples, but what I want to do is I want to take you all the way to the end of all of that learning, decades of learning, decades of shedding, and the end game for me right now, and I shared in a previous episode, but what I realize so clearly now is that my True Self in my work life is three things, creating content, teaching content, and navigating. And so I call it navigation and that's just me providing navigation to the leaders in my life and the people I work with.
(06:16):
And so I just do those three things all day every day of my work life and in my personal life, it's all about spending time with loved ones, friends and family, and pursuing my passions and doing my passions and that's as simple as going for a walk, reading a book, traveling with friends and family. So all of my time is spent doing that. So that is the end game, that's where I've gotten to, and certainly there's more shedding that goes on. So now we can go into any detail from that beginning to where we are today. Happy to share anything about that.
Rob Dube (06:50):
Okay. I want to start at the beginning because personality profiles were coming to my mind when I was preparing for this. And one of the things that I wondered about, and you've had such experience in this area, in this arena with all these different profiling tools, but I want to share my experience and then vibe off of you.
Gino Wickman (07:10):
Yeah. Sure.
Rob Dube (07:10):
So first what I've noticed is I feel funny recommending personality profiles because there's this part of me that assumes, and I don't want to assume, that you all have taken them already. So I picture this, you listening, going, "Yeah, yeah. No, I know. I've taken them." But what I'm curious about is how deep of a dive have you done with it? I feel what I've seen oftentimes is people will do a personality profiling tool, they'll read their own results, make some quick conclusions, and move on, sometimes reference it along the way in terms of trying to explain to team members or people in the world kind of a little bit more about themselves, but what do you think about investing time and/or money into taking a deeper dive into a profiling tool and just focusing on it?
Gino Wickman (08:06):
Yeah. So I'm really glad you're starting there because that's the point I'm trying to make is to me that's as important as shedding stuff. And so I love that we're going to start there. So what I have found, our profiling tools are like religion in terms of people feel very strongly about their profiling tools. That's why I don't recommend it because I will hear somebody rant and rave about a tool that I didn't get so much out of and then I rant and rave about the tools I love and people are looking at me like, "Eh. Didn't get too much out of that one." So this is why it's so important. You got to choose your path and choose your tools.
(08:39):
So for me, the three that have had the biggest impact on me is Myers-Briggs, DISC, and Kolbe. And so those are the ones that really made an impact. And then there are 10 other ones, probably 20 if I look back at the last 30 years, that I've taken and they were like so so to me and I got a nugget though, I got a nugget out of each one and I just kind of grabbed that nugget and applied it to my life, but that was the extent of it. And so that's hopefully answering your question.
Rob Dube (09:11):
Yeah. You mentioned Kolbe, a funny story comes to my mind. I've talked to people who are quick starts and I think in people getting so ingrained with Kolbe, they're starting to notice their tendencies to say yes to things really quickly, especially when they're going to buy things like the 10 Disciplines group coaching program or entering into it and they'll say, "You know what? I'm a nine quick start. So I realize this about myself. I need to think about this. So it was a little bit longer." So I love the awareness that it brings to people along the way. Now listen, you and I, I feel, are both intentional about devoting time to practices that heighten our self-awareness. And I'm curious, do you have anything recently that provided you with some fresh insight or a deeper knowing of yourself?
Gino Wickman (10:01):
And are you talking about profiling tools or are you talking about just-
Rob Dube (10:03):
No.
Gino Wickman (10:03):
Anything in general?
Rob Dube (10:04):
I'm going to the other side. I should have prefaced that.
Gino Wickman (10:08):
Yeah. So I'm going to grab one thing you said about profiling tools and then I'll come back to that question because you mentioned Kolbe, which obviously I'm a fan of and you mentioned one of the aspects of Kolbe, which teaches you your quick start and the level of quick start that you are and I want to now just grab the strengths and weakness piece of that because again, the learning in these tools is, with a quick start, if you're a high quick start, it doesn't mean you won. You could be a one quick start, 10 quick start, both are good answers, but if you're a high quick start, the blessing side of it is you have lots of ideas and you move very fast.
(10:43):
The downside is you leave a black trail behind you. And so the beauty of that, it's understanding your strengths and your weaknesses because to the degree you can be aware, you leave a black trail, you'll leave less black trails. And to the degree you understand the power of that quick start, you can then maximize that. So I just wanted to grab that teaching point and that learning point.
Rob Dube (11:03):
Yeah.
Gino Wickman (11:04):
So with specifics, here's what I would ask because nothing's jumping to the front of my mind and I think it will, but can you humor me and answer your question for you and I want to see what that prompts for me because for me, it feels like every week going down some rabbit hole learning something about myself and shedding something. But please. So if you wouldn't mind answering it first.
Rob Dube (11:29):
Yeah, and we have fun sometimes sending things to each other, but someone mentioned to me earlier this year or last year, I can't remember, it doesn't even matter, that I follow my nose a lot. And so I followed my nose and somehow ended up working with this woman who does what's called saidup soul healing and this is an ancient bon Buddhist tradition which incorporates the five elements earth, wind, water, and space and essentially it's energy work that brings all those five things, earth, wind, fire, water, and space, into balance.
(12:06):
And there's always, I'm learning, so I can't speak in depth about it, but I just wanted to share with you and the listeners the kind of things that, I'll only speak for myself, that I might do to try to know thyself better because as I'm learning where things are out of balance and what she's helping me recognize, we also talk through some of those things. And it's been really useful and I was a little bit mini skeptical, but I wanted to try it. I was interested and curious and I found it to be actually very impactful. Yeah. And I've been doing it for about six months.
Gino Wickman (12:43):
Very cool. So what that prompted for me is I think maybe one of my most recent ones, but there's this coming together of three things that has happened in the last two months. One is I spent a month doing a lot of reading and awareness around the shadow self. And so that's like the dark side that we try to tuck and hide away from the world because we're so embarrassed by it. So that's called shadow self. I believe it was Jung-
Rob Dube (12:43):
Yeah. Carl Jung.
Gino Wickman (13:19):
From Carl Jung from the early 1900s who coined the phrase, but it's been around forever. We all have a shadow self. So that awareness combined with something else that was presented to me 20 years ago that I came back to just recently and it's Dr. Sarno's work, he wrote a book called Healing Back Pain, and I'm just fascinated by this because he is convinced he has healed tens of thousands of people with pain in their body, back pain is just one aspect of it, but what he believes is the pain has nothing to do with anything structural. He thinks it's a fallacy when people blame it on a disc problem or something like that. And what he believes is that it is anger, rage, anxiety stuffed deep inside of us. And then there's certainly the teaching that we teach that all decisions are made out of love or fear.
(14:14):
And those three things came together so clearly because it's all the same stuff, it's us stuffing stuff down to hide it from the world to protect ourselves and it is causing angst, dis-ease, pain. And so just to see it two other ways, it was just like an aha moment because it's all the same stuff and I think this world is getting clearer and clearer and clearer. But the point I'm making in the Sarno stuff is I have back pain occasionally, like when I play golf, and he now has me convinced that there's nothing going on with me structurally. He talks about as people pleaser, so anyone that is a people pleaser and the kind of people that solve everybody's problems, we have hidden rage and anger inside of us. And to express anger and rage is so inappropriate in our society and culture that we stuff it down and it's more appropriate to have pain in your body than it is to express rage or anger.
(15:21):
And so I just had an aha moment about, "Okay. I've got some more work to do here," because if I look back at some things in my life, I think I still do have some anger and some rage about things. And so I'm starting to release that. And so that's something that's going on for me right now. But the fascinating thing was just about people pleasers and it's like every one of our listeners, if you're driven, you have this kind of perfectionistic, people pleaser. And so we're secretly angry at the world because we have to solve all their fucking problems. So anyway. For what that's worth.
Rob Dube (15:57):
That's good. I just have to jump in on that. First, for the listeners, Dr. Sarno has passed. He is no longer with us, but somebody that he mentors-
Gino Wickman (16:11):
A protege. Yeah. Protege.
Rob Dube (16:13):
Thank you. Steve Ozanich, which you can look him up, just go out and do a search on him, he's carrying the work along. And a couple of things, like you and I had a brief mini, mini discussion, you probably don't even remember it, but I started getting on a supplement regime in January of '25 and about 90 days in I started to wonder, I actually felt better and I was surprised. But then I started to wonder how much of this was my mind versus the supplements and it's just a big mind F for me and I'm still working through it, but what Steve would say is, "You don't fully believe Rob," and I've worked with him.
(17:02):
You have to fully believe and embrace that these pains and these ailments that are having, especially chronic pain is one of the things that they work most with, there are real ailments, there are real health issues that need medical attention, so be aware of that, but some of this chronic pain that many of us have had, Steve and Dr. Sarno would argue or have you consider that this is all a manifestation from your mind and it's showing up in your body and you mentioned when you were talking about different traits of these people, Steve always says, "You're a goodest." I just love that word. You're a goodest.
Gino Wickman (17:45):
Yeah.
Rob Dube (17:45):
And I've talked on the podcast about some of these skin issues I've had and that's how I got connected to Steve. He saw my skin and he said, "You have so much rage my friend," and it really messed with me because I don't feel like I do, but I must.
Gino Wickman (18:03):
Yeah, and I'll just piggyback on that because I'm actually reading Steve Ozanich's book right now.
Rob Dube (18:03):
Okay.
Gino Wickman (18:09):
And the approach I'm taking to it because it's a very lengthy book-
Rob Dube (18:12):
Yes it is.
Gino Wickman (18:13):
And it's not like we're recommending everybody go out there and read it, but it's really good, but I'm reading two to four pages a night and every page is so mind-blowing because I'm having these awarenesses, but it's like, "Wow, every time." And again, I'm talking about the coming together of those three things, it is discovery number two in the three discoveries to free your True Self. It is the four levels under love and fear-based stuff. It's just being said a little bit different way, but it's just fascinating how we human beings, we stuff it down and it's showing up in different ways.
(18:51):
So he talks about perfectionists, which again, is most of our listeners, certainly me, but he just talks about how perfectionists are secretly angry at the world. We walk around secretly angry. And the last thing I ever thought I was was an angry person, but that's the power of the shadow self. It's buried so deep, you don't even know what's going on it's so far down there. And so the idea is to accept it, realize it, and let it come up so you can free it. Good stuff.
Rob Dube (19:26):
So for the listener, you see where this goes. We're talking about personality profiling at the one end and all this other stuff that you've just heard us go through on the other side of things and this is just a path that you can find yourself going down and noticing what resonates and following your nose as somebody said to me. And ...
Gino Wickman (19:50):
Yes, and 100% freeing your True Self. Let me say it this way, 100% knowing yourself so you can be yourself is freeing your True Self. And so it is stuff as deep as what we're talking about, shedding this shit inside of you and things as simple as understanding that you're a high quick start. It all comes together in this magical formula that is uniquely you.
Rob Dube (20:15):
Yeah. Anything else to say? I feel like that was a good ending point.
Gino Wickman (20:19):
Oh, I think we have said it all on this one. But this one, we could do a 25-hour episode on this.
Rob Dube (20:20):
I'm holding back honestly.
Gino Wickman (20:26):
This could go on forever. So to be continued in a future episode.
Rob Dube (20:31):
All right. So until next time, we keep encouraging you to turn that light inward. Honor what you discover and let your freak flag fly and your True Self will absolutely shine. So thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you next time. Stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (20:51):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
