Rob Dube (00:21):
Hello everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, how are you my friend?
Gino Wickman (00:28):
I am pretty darn good.
Rob Dube (00:31):
Pretty darn good.
Gino Wickman (00:32):
Pretty darn good.
Rob Dube (00:33):
What should we do today?
Gino Wickman (00:35):
Let's have a coffee shop conversation.
Rob Dube (00:37):
Okay, I love it.
Gino Wickman (00:40):
Shall I explain?
Rob Dube (00:41):
Yeah, I think so.
Gino Wickman (00:42):
All right, so you always turn it over to me to explain these. So if you're a regular follower of the podcast, you know the drill here. But for those new faces and ears out there, what this is is for decades since Rob and I met once or twice a year, we would sit in a coffee shop for half a day and just talk about everything and anything. And so that habit leaked its way into the podcast that we have. And so every so often we will have a coffee shop conversation on a podcast episode, which means just like in our coffee shop meetings, neither one of us knew the topic. We would just show up and talk about what's on our mind. And on average we get through one, two, or three topics per episode and that's what we're about to do.
(01:33):
Today, I'm turning it over to Rob to start, which means he gets to pick the first topic. I have no idea what he's about to bring up. And in the interest of full disclosure, if we get to a second topic and he turns it back over to me, I have no idea for the first time ever doing these, what my topic's going to be. So I am kind of excited about what the hell that might mean or turn into.
Rob Dube (01:57):
No pressure, but that's usually where you're at your best.
Gino Wickman (01:59):
Yes, exactly. Well, we're going to find out,
Rob Dube (02:01):
And also if you're new to listening, the idea around this wasn't so you would hear two guys thinking whatever they're talking about is so interesting, because actually we resisted the whole concept of this. But we did a few and we had really positive feedback around it. And so the other thing that I wanted to share today, Gino-
Gino Wickman (02:22):
Yeah, please
Rob Dube (02:22):
Is we don't get to do actual coffee shop conversations, anything like we used to. It's sad. It really is.
Gino Wickman (02:30):
It really is.
Rob Dube (02:31):
So a lot of times we set time to meet and we have a list and we have a lot of business things going on. So we always start there and figure whatever time's left we'll get to the other coffee shop topics, which are actual coffee shop topics. And sadly they don't happen. And yesterday we got to have a chat. I had some things on my list, we didn't get to them. So one of the things on my list was a curiosity I have around some deep work that you did over your March sabbatical. And if I'm allowed to ask you about it, and if not-
Gino Wickman (03:07):
You're allowed.
Rob Dube (03:08):
This won't make the light of day, this podcast.
Gino Wickman (03:12):
I'm an open book. You're allowed.
Rob Dube (03:13):
I know you went somewhere to have some deep body work and you said it was very high level. You did share it was very impactful. And I'm wondering if you'd be willing to help me understand what you went through.
Gino Wickman (03:27):
For sure. Happy to. Now here's what's interesting, okay, because the only thing that keeps kind of flashing into my head, if there were a topic I was going to bring up, it's this topic but maybe a little different but it's what happened in March. So ironically, you're bringing up the topic that I was probably going to bring up if something didn't flash into my mind. And so I want to give a bigger context because the body work that Kathy and I went and did in Austin-
Rob Dube (04:00):
And Kathy's your wife,
Gino Wickman (04:01):
Kathy's my wife. That wasn't like the aha moment. That was one of many things that went on in March. And as I zoom out, it was about a month and a half long period. So I want to give you all of the moving parts and then come back to why it was I think a profound month for me. So I took the month of March off, which I don't do that every year. I take a good chunk of time off in March, but August is always my sabbatical. Last time I took March off was five or six years ago, and I don't know when I'll do it again. But I'll definitely be taking some time off in March.
(04:37):
Anyways, in saying that, it was just the perfect set of circumstances where I was introduced to five great books and I wish I could tell you the names of them all. And I don't know the names of any of them, but I'll do my best to remember one or two. There is this interesting gentleman, he calls himself a soul coach I was introduced to. And I did two, two-hour sessions with him that really enlightened me on a couple of two really profound topics which were really helpful. There was the body work that we went and did. I went and saw my doctor in Nashville and then we took a week in The Bahamas. So that's where I did most of my reading, which was great. So it was all of it in its entirety. And I'm already forgetting the last thing I did and I can't remember what it is. Hopefully it'll come to me. But-
Rob Dube (05:26):
You went to Florida.
Gino Wickman (05:27):
Oh, and went to Florida. But anyway, all of that rolled together allowed time and space, as we talk about, you got to create space for these things to happen. But now I'm going to zoom out to the big thing that kind of happened and then we can get into some of the more specific things. And I actually touched on this in a previous episode. And I'm trying to do the math on when I recorded that episode and where we are today. And I'm guessing it was probably two months before when this episode is going to come out. So it was two months ago and that episode was more or less about the hero's journey, but I can't remember what I called it but it's like returning to yourself and coming back home or returning to ourself.
(06:13):
And so the big aha in all of it was realizing the hero's journey that I've been on three different levels, a 27-year hero's journey, a five-year hero's journey, and then a 45-day hero's journey or 30 days that we're talking about right now. And what I realized in all three of them, it was the exact same thing where I set out to seek something, find something, solve something, conquer something, do something. And in every case returned back to myself and everything I was seeking was right here. But the bigger aha was not just that and oh, I hope I can explain this. It's realizing that I am me and my gifts are my gifts. I set out thinking that there was this massive change I was going to make, that I was going to become this different person and this different thing. And that was not at all the case.
(07:20):
My gifts are still my gifts. Who I am is still who I am. What changed is the foundation that that all sits on. What I realized is from age 15 to 50, the foundation that these gifts sat on was a foundation of fear and pain and trauma and wounding and angst and anxiety. And after the journey and the shedding and the clearing, and again, I don't know where I am on this journey, it's not like I'm completely solved. But it now sits on these gifts and abilities, and who I am now sits on a foundation of love and light and peace and fulfillment. So it's like everything it's different, but I'm still the same guy. I didn't have to make this massive change about who I am. My True Self is still my True Self. I just shed all the stuff that was hindering me from kind of fully being free.
(08:22):
Now again, I don't know if I'm at 100% or 1%, but the point in all of this is that everything that happened in that month and a half was everything was a reinforcement of everything we've been teaching. Every book I read was a reinforcement of everything we've been teaching, a validation of what we've been teaching. A validation of what I've been experiencing because I go through moments of saying, "Are we crazy with this thing we're doing? You and I are we just trapped in an echo chamber where we're making shit up and we think we're right and we're just completely delusional?" There are moments where I just wonder because sometimes people tell us we're crazy.
(09:08):
So it's just a validation, a clarifying, a knowing and an embodying of all of that. And going back to that soul coach, there are two big things that came out of that and one was embodying because I realized intellectually I understand all of this stuff so intellectually clear, but I had not fully embodied it, point one. Point two, something came up just about some sadness in my teens, age 12, 13, and 14. And so some really cool big stuff came up there that I was able to shed and that's when I changed. So age 15 is when I put on the suit of armor and shunned the sensitive wimpy kid at 12,13 and 14, and left him behind. And so I had to go back and meet him again because I've been running from him for 30 years, 40 years. So some great healing there, just some great clarity. So that's what happened in mark.
Rob Dube (10:04):
That's it?
Gino Wickman (10:05):
That's it. And I feel like I did a better job explaining it here today than that previous episode. But I think the episode was clear enough because the other aha and the reason I shared it in the episode, is everything I just shared is the three discoveries, discovery number two, all decisions are made out of love or fear and the four levels, the four levels is the journey. It's a bunch of many journeys. The discovery number three, it's possible to be driven and have peace, is what I'm describing. It's possible to be driven and have these gifts on a foundation of peace. It doesn't have to be on a foundation of angst. And then the True Self model, that infinity model, the sideways eight on one side is impact, on one side is peace. This is what I'm talking about. It's possible to make an even bigger impact on the world with your gifts while experiencing peace.
(10:55):
It's like just another way of saying it all. And then it's like the clarity is I realize words can't describe this thing. So now it's a knowing. It's like now it's ingrained, I think, I hope, but words can't describe what I'm talking about. In other words, you get to a point where you just know it. And that's what my hope is for the world and everybody that's listening, is we get you to this knowing where it's like once it gets so clear, it's like, oh, you just shed so fast and you realize why on earth did I do this to myself? Now I say that while still on the journey with all of you, and I have no idea where I am on this journey.
Rob Dube (11:34):
God.
Gino Wickman (11:35):
There you go.
Rob Dube (11:36):
Well, thank you for sharing. There's so much that comes up for me and we are recording a podcast, so I'm always mindful that-
Gino Wickman (11:44):
Oh, that right.
Rob Dube (11:45):
We're not in the coffee shop because this is why the coffee shops are four hours and not 20 minutes, and we're 11 minutes in. But I'm just going to say some things and maybe it'll prompt some things for you. The first thing that came up for me when you were talking and you kind of circled to it at a certain point is, is it all that complicated? So I find myself intellectualizing it way too much, and then I find myself drawn to ways to unblock what I feel is blocked energy. And so I'm spending a lot of mental energy around that. And it always comes back to, but it was always right there. So I don't know, I think you said at some point, am I right or I can't remember exactly. I don't think I'm right, I'm wrong. I don't know what I am. Honestly, I don't know any more than you listening or than anybody else for that matter.
(12:45):
I know what I've experienced and that's all I can talk about is what I've experienced. I've experienced healing, but did I have to experience healing to be healed? I don't really know. And then just tracking, I don't know if I'm this far or I'm that far. That's something you prompted for me. And the mind says, "I don't want to track this. I don't want to think I'm this far or that far." Some days I feel like I'm a frigging mess, and other days I feel like I'm in a really good place. Maybe that's just life. And accepting that that's life. And it's how you accept that, how you sit with that. Somebody taught me this idea of softening into things. I can feel at times my body in particular uptight, and she would just say, "Just soften for a minute." And that is really something that's been useful for me. I don't know. So I'm going to stop talking. What about you?
Gino Wickman (13:44):
So these are the three things that prompted me, and what prompted this is you saying it's simple because that's the reality. It is so incredibly simple. And so for you out there, you got to figure out your simple way of seeing it, knowing it, embodying it, because for me, the simple way is my cocoon analogy that I share all the time and just simply go back to that episode if you need to hear it again. But the point is, our True Self is trapped behind a cocoon that our ego created to protect us. So that's what I did at 15, I put the cocoon on to protect myself from the world, and there my True Self was trapped as I went forward. And this foundation as we're talking about a fear, angst, trauma, whatever you want to call it. And so my central nervous system was always amped, where now it's just much more peaceful, not so amped. But it's simple.
(14:31):
So you got to decide your way of looking at it. And I keep trying to give different ways to look at it because it's so clear in my mind. And so with that simplicity, oh, when you see how simple it is, it's like there my mind goes to. So then you're going to ask yourself, so what the hell happened? Because when you see how simple it is, I keep saying this, but you are perfect. We are all perfect. We are all balls of light. We are all pure love. We come into this world as sheer perfection and then what the hell happens? And so with this clarity of our True Selves, which is what we call it, but if you look at every form of religion and spirituality and all these other approaches to it, it's called being a child of God, my father and I are one, being self-actualized, being enlightened, True Self, soul.
(15:27):
Again, whatever you want to call it. We don't touch any of those things because we don't need to because here's what we did as we human beings in the last many thousands of years, we try to put words on it and then we battle over words. At the end of the day, there aren't any words. It's so clear. And so there we are this perfect ball of light and somehow something fucked us all up and we hung onto it and lost ourselves. And so then it's possible to come home, hero's journey, come all the way back and shed all of that and come back home to ourselves and be that thing. And again, you're still going to have challenges in life, shit's still going to happen, challenging people. Life still happens, but it can happen in just a much more peaceful way.
Rob Dube (16:18):
Yeah, you're bringing up somebody that we had in on our mastermind in March when you were gone, Steve Ozanich. And he talks about the mind-body connection. And I've worked with him on some things and it's kind of funny because it does come back to simple. And so he helps you if you have an ailment like a bad back, or in my case I had some skin issues, I still have them. And what he would say to me is you're holding onto something. And so the skin is a manifestation of that. So just let it go, which that's the next thing I'm focused on intellectually, which I can't focus on that intellectually. You can't do that. And so it's like the knowing, as you said, it's the complete letting go. And I can't even put words on it. But you spend two hours with the guy and it all makes sense. But it's so complicated, but it's not.
Gino Wickman (17:19):
And every book I read was on that. So I read two Gabor Mate books and watched two one-hour videos. His stuff is incredible. It's all about that. It's The Body Keeps the Score. If you've read that book, it's all about how our minds hold onto these emotions and we just can't release them for whatever reason we're holding on. Something happened in the past, we're holding on to. Gabor Mate, he articulates it so clear. So you read that book and it's so clear, you worked with Stephen, it's so clear. Everything I read, it's so clear. And then you come back to the real world and it becomes a little more complex. But it is that simple and it's that clear. We're just for some reason, our ego is hanging onto this thing.
(18:05):
And it's silly, is the word that comes to mind at the end of the day, because so simple. It's silly that why do we do this to ourselves? And it just feels like at 57, I can't remember a time that people talked about this stuff more openly. So it feels like we're all heading into a better place where we're all freeing our True Selves, letting our souls shine. And it feels like we're going there. But maybe we've been here before, I'm not so sure. I don't know. But sure seems like it.
Rob Dube (18:38):
Well, to your point, time and space, and I feel that, and it's just a feeling, it feels like the world's moving in a way where maybe we're going to have a little bit more time and space, which would be really beautiful because then we'll have time to tap in. Two books, if I remember correctly, you mentioned one of the books you read is The Power of Presence. Is that the name of it?
Gino Wickman (19:00):
No, Journey into Now.
Rob Dube (19:03):
Journey Into Now. Yeah, why The Power of Presence. Okay, yeah, Journey into Now-
Gino Wickman (19:08):
And that is just freaky because that's like if I were to ever write a non-business book, because it's very shiny in terms of a lot of shine stuff in there, but he completely just lets go. In other words, if I ever wrote something that was 100% not one smack of business, that would be the book. That book is just perfection. So again, it hit me in the soul, may not hit others the way it hit me but man, that was an experience reading that book.
Rob Dube (19:41):
It's a good one. The Hero's Journey is Joseph Campbell, if anyone's interested in that.
Gino Wickman (19:45):
Yeah. And with that, I didn't read The Hero's Journey book, that was not what this was about. I am familiar enough with The Hero's Journey to be dangerous. I've looked it up, looked at the circular model. I get it. I can't teach it to people, but I know the basic premise. You set out to seek something, solve something, conquer something, you come back only to realize it was here. The book Siddhartha, it's the story of Buddha and what happened to him. It was everything is right here. And so I'm just leaning on that teaching. But no, I didn't do any work around understanding that any more in the last 45 days, but that's what I realized these three big cycles were. We're all Hero's Journeys.
Rob Dube (20:29):
Yeah. All right, Gino, well, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it.
Gino Wickman (20:33):
And there's our two topics in one.
Rob Dube (20:34):
There you go. Any last words?
Gino Wickman (20:37):
I don't think so, man. This was fun. Hopefully the audience feels the same way.
Rob Dube (20:41):
Yeah. All right, well, thank you for joining us. As always, we look forward to seeing you next time. And the meantime, stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (20:51):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self-assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self, stay focused and much love.
