Gino Wickman (00:00):
Welcome to the Shed and Shine Podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube and I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
Rob Dube (00:21):
Hello, everyone. This is Rob Dube and I am here with my very good friend, Gino Wickman. How are you today, Gino?
Gino Wickman (00:29):
I am fantastic.
Rob Dube (00:30):
So good to see you. I was thinking about you recently.
Gino Wickman (00:34):
Really?
Rob Dube (00:35):
I was, I was. I was thinking about how your be still time has changed a bit over the years, because we've talked a lot about our routines and things like that. So correct me where I'm wrong here because I'm going on my memory and that doesn't always work. But my understanding is that you've been spending a bit more time in contemplation. And why this came up for me is that I have people asking me all the time what contemplation is and how to do it. So to get your gears turning, I thought I'd start by sharing what it is for me and then we'll go from there.
Gino Wickman (01:14):
Great. Love it.
Rob Dube (01:15):
So for me, it's a practice where I'm deeply observing my thoughts, my emotions or an experience and become curious about what's coming up for me. So during a contemplation, I'll sit with my thoughts, I'll let them unfold naturally and guide me towards a potential deeper understanding. So for me, being fully present with the spirit of a thought, an idea or concept, without the, I guess I would say without the pressure of having to completely understand, define or control it.
(01:49):
And I've noticed we call it be still, but I actually feel like I do my best contemplations when I'm moving and that's when I'm hiking. And I believe when I'm in nature, I just feel a bit more connected to all things, and that allows me to be in more of a state of wonder where I'm brought into the beauty, the mystery, and the complexity of something beyond my usual understanding. Okay. So does that prompt anything for you?
Gino Wickman (02:16):
Yeah, that prompts a few things.
Rob Dube (02:17):
Okay, cool.
Gino Wickman (02:17):
And I'm just grabbing something here because I always know the topic we're going to talk about, but I never know what we're going to do. And in the interest of full disclosure, when you said you want to do an episode on contemplation, I was like, how in the hell are we going to fill 10 to 20 minutes on contemplation? It just feels like such a short, sweet, straightforward topic.
(02:40):
And so let's see what happens here. But the first thing I did though is I actually looked up the definition of the word contemplation, and I'm just going to read these two definitions. The first one is, "Thoughtful observation or study." The second one was, "The act of the mind in considering with intention, continued attention of the mind to a particular subject, meditation, musing or study." There was another definition that said that, "Contemplation is the act or state of contemplating," and that didn't help at all.
(03:18):
So again, just to get the gears turning a little bit, because I don't even know that I know the perfect definition of contemplation, and so I'll give you my version of it. But what's fun about this conversation is if we zoom out, go to the full context. What we teach the world is to be still. It's one of the disciplines, we urge people to be still and then figure out their own formula for stillness. And we always talk about meditation, prayer, journaling, and contemplation as the big four. So we're just talking about one of those four. And the other thing I love about this is a woman said to me once, which gave me so much freedom, and that is that I can change up my stillness routine. And so I love that because I do mix it up a bit.
(04:05):
And so I find that I meditate probably three to five times a week, and that's a sitting meditation. I do this lying meditation as well. And so sometimes before I go to sleep, sometimes in the morning, but then I also spend time with contemplation. I'm doing a little bit more journaling. So it's kind of a little bit of everything. And I would suggest my contemplation is probably once a week if I'm looking at the math. But what contemplation is for me is it is about focusing on a particular topic.
(04:38):
And so sometimes it is a talk I'm going to do. Whenever I prepare for a riff, I will spend some time in contemplation. It's always with my eyes closed, almost always, and it's always with a legal pad sitting on my lap. And for me, it's very profound because I just go to this place and it's very meditative, but I just go to this place and I just get downloads and clarity. And so sometimes I'm walking through the whole talk, sometimes I'm walking through the whole riff, sometimes I'm just focusing on, but whatever the topic is, I just put all of my energy and focus into that topic and all the right answers just kind of bubble to the surface.
(05:24):
And then I'll share another thing because outside of this, in EOS, the system, I created the Entrepreneurial Operating System, we teach every leader to take clarity breaks and clarity breaks are a form of this as well. And so you out there listening, you may be wondering, where does clarity break fit into this? It's a form of contemplation. I really believe that that's... Clarity break is not meditation, it's not prayer, it's not journaling in most cases, but it looks a lot more like contemplation. I created EOS sitting in a Starbucks two hours a week having clarity breaks because some of my best answers and downloads came in those clarity breaks, and that's what contemplation does for me. I get these great downloads, and so it's very energizing.
Rob Dube (06:13):
So the question that comes up for me, because I think where we might be a little different, and by the way, I don't think it's this way or that way, so just for whatever that's worth. But it seems to me like you're looking oftentimes at a business oriented either activity that you need to do like a talk or a riff, and maybe you're beginning to visualize it or see it come to life in some way. Is that how I'm understanding it?
Gino Wickman (06:42):
Well, I wouldn't say that because I'm giving business examples, but as I think about it, I mean it could be me sitting and observing and focusing on my ego and watching it work. So it's not just business, it's everything.
Rob Dube (06:56):
Okay, got it.
Gino Wickman (06:56):
It's personal, it's personal life stuff. But for me it is a topic because there's also, when you look up the definition of contemplation, it's biblical in nature and it's spiritual in nature, so that's a whole nother definition. And so this is why I think it's different for everyone. And for me it's just intense focused time on any topic, again for me and how I experience it.
Rob Dube (07:26):
When I was putting together some thoughts around this, I thought, why would somebody want to do a contemplation? Why should somebody even be contemplating doing this? So some notes that I came up with, some ideas were that it opens up pathways in your mind that you may not be otherwise accessing and then being open to questions versus being in your usual problem solving mode. And that can be really freeing. It is for me, I know that.
(07:58):
For me as an example, it allows me to better understand some things that I'm going through or it's prompted more questions that may lead me to a place I may not have gone intellectually otherwise, which I actually consider sort of a deeper form of productivity. It's not productivity that's about doing more. It's about getting closer to what truly matters and doing that more quickly and as we say, so you could free your True Self and shine. Anything prompts for you there?
Gino Wickman (08:29):
Well, nothing specifically on what you're saying, but two things on the perimeter of what you're saying because now I'm just kind of thinking of all forms of how I've contemplated in the past. The first is just an exercise I would urge every listener out there to do. Once this episode ends, do this immediately. And I would urge you to think about the biggest thing going on in your life. I'm trying to figure out the right way to word this that allows all options in. Because it's not so much the biggest issue, it's not so much the biggest opportunity. It's not so much business. It's not so much personal. It's whatever it is.
(09:08):
But what's the biggest thing going on in your life that you need to spend a little time on? Something should have come to you right there, write it down and try this. Go take 30 minutes right now and just focus on that topic. Contemplate on that topic. Again, my style would be to have a journal or a legal pad handy, but just try what we're talking about and see what comes up for you.
(09:32):
And then the second thing it made me think of is, this is a little different, but this is something I will do... Just a little different though, it's something I will do about every one to three months. So let's grab the average there every other month. And I've done this with so many people with such profound results, but it's whenever I am feeling overwhelmed or the person I'm sitting with is feeling overwhelmed, what I do is I just list everything. I just sit and I just list everything that's overwhelming me. And again, now I just want to speak to the person that I've done this with so many times.
(10:12):
I literally hand them my legal pad if they don't have one, and I will hand them my pen and I will just say, "Do me a favor right now. Go ahead and list everything that's overwhelming you right now." And they will write for five to 10 minutes, I'll give them as much time as they need. And they'll have this laundry list in front of them, and then that right there reduced their overwhelmed by 80%. That is a form of contemplation. But then what I urge them to do is pour over that list, look at each one of those items and just contemplate on each one of those things.
(10:42):
And what happens is about half of the things on the list, you realize there's nothing to be overwhelmed about. And if it's a time issue, you've got more time than you thought, and then there's some really red-hot stuff and you find that one, two or three are the real hot buttons that you're feeling overwhelmed about. And again, contemplating on those things helps you lay out a plan, get clarity, understand why it's overwhelming you. And so there's tremendous freedom. But I view that whole exercise again, that I will do every other month and with people that are overwhelmed, I find it is very profound, reduces overwhelm, and is a form of contemplation.
Rob Dube (11:18):
You're making me wonder if when I have my list, as I'm going through it, to use the discovery number two, decisions are made from love or fear, do I say that's fear-based?
Gino Wickman (11:30):
Yeah.
Rob Dube (11:31):
That's fear-based, that's love-based.
Gino Wickman (11:33):
That would be awesome. That'd be a fun little twist, that exercise.
Rob Dube (11:36):
One of the things that I know for me, I'm always thinking about, I always go back to ego for some reason. And I'm always asking myself that in contemplation when I'm caught up with stuff, where's my ego in all this? What's going on here? I was thinking about, well you know, I felt pretty frustrated about our sales process recently. And so I was doing some contemplating because it's been almost four years we've been doing this business.
Gino Wickman (12:00):
Four years.
Rob Dube (12:00):
Yeah, right? Went by in the blink of an eye, really did.
Gino Wickman (12:04):
Yes, it did.
Rob Dube (12:05):
I just think to myself, what am I doing? What is going on here? Why can't I seem to figure this thing out? And I really actually felt like in contemplation, I had some really cool downloads after and I felt more at ease because of it. And so some of it brought up more questions, but that was kind of the point.
Gino Wickman (12:28):
Exactly.
Rob Dube (12:29):
And that's what I love about contemplation. One other thing that I wanted to say, and then I want to maybe give you an opportunity to have the last words if you have any. But one thing that you can do is you can find a favorite book. And it could be scriptures if you have a particular religion or faith that's important to you. It could be, as I mentioned, like a favorite book, business book or otherwise. And literally put it in front of you and kind of go through the pages. Just let it go back and forth, back and forth like you're shuffling a deck of cards almost, and then stop, open it up and read the first paragraph that you see.
(13:10):
Read it, and then just contemplate on why it was that spot in the book that you stopped at. And don't look for the immediate connection that dopamine hit. Just sit with it, just read it, sit with it, and let it kind of filter in through you and see what comes up. I do that and I really think it's an interesting exercise for myself.
Gino Wickman (13:34):
That's cool. I can't speak to it. Frankly, I don't know that it's anything I would ever do, but that's so Rob-esque. And I would suggest that half of our audience is probably very intrigued by that and should go do it, and half are like me and say, "Ah, good idea, but I'm going to go do it my way."
Rob Dube (13:51):
What's he talking about?
Gino Wickman (13:52):
Not even so much that, but we all have our ways. But that's again, back to the point, you got to figure out your way. What's the way that works for your unique being and figure that out. So if you're turning it back over to me now, I had two last thoughts that it prompted. And what came to me is the difference between meditation and contemplation, because I think that that's a question that's going to come up for us, it has, I think it's going to come up a lot more. But I have a simple answer, listening to, observing and participating in this conversation. And that is when there's a topic to focus on, its contemplation. When there is no topic to focus on, its meditation.
(14:36):
And so for me, and I'm just speaking from my standpoint, meditation and is when there's no topic, there's no nothing. It is just sitting in stillness, in silence and just going into the void, that incredible, peaceful place, whatever you want to call it. So no topic to me is meditation. When there's a topic to focus on, its contemplation, for what that's worth.
(15:02):
And then what I hope in this episode is that we made clear the benefits because we certainly shared a lot of different ways to do it, but I just hope the benefits are clear in terms of, I describe it as download. For me, I can't think of anything more valuable than these incredible downloads you get during contemplation. And I always lovingly say, when it came out of nowhere, it came from somewhere. So I don't know where that's coming from, but it's coming from someplace really cool that's looking out for you. And whether that's your soul, your mind, your spirit, God, whatever you want to call it, but you get downloads and they are profound.
Rob Dube (15:43):
Just get quiet and listen.
Gino Wickman (15:45):
Hear, hear.
Rob Dube (15:45):
All right, Gino, thanks so much. Great seeing you.
Gino Wickman (15:49):
You too, brother.
Rob Dube (15:49):
All right, and to everyone else out there, thanks again for joining us as always and stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (15:58):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self-assessment and receive personalized guidance.
(16:18):
If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self, stay focused and much love.
