Gino Wickman (00:00):
Welcome to the Shed and Shine podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube. And I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom, and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
Rob Dube (00:21):
Hello everyone. My name is Rob Dube, and I am here with Gino Wickman. Gino, how are you?
Gino Wickman (00:27):
I am great, Rob.
Rob Dube (00:29):
What are we doing?
Gino Wickman (00:30):
I have no idea. You told me to show up and put a microphone in my face, so I'm doing whatever you tell me to do.
Rob Dube (00:35):
Okay. Let's make this happen.
Gino Wickman (00:38):
All right.
Rob Dube (00:38):
We're doing the coffee shop talk.
Gino Wickman (00:40):
Yes, we are. And I did know that. So you're turning this one over to me to tee up. And so if you've been listening to every episode, you will have heard two episodes from the past that we kind of call Coffee Shop Conversations. And what this is Rob and I have been meeting in a coffee shop talking for the last 20 years, and we show up and we'll spend two to four hours in a coffee shop and we just start talking about stuff, and we never know what we're going to talk about. And each person kind of brings the topic and what's on their mind or topics. And so we decided to try it on a podcast. And the first one worked. We didn't know if it'd ever see the light of day, and it did. And so the way this works is Rob and I show up. So picture us in the coffee shop right now, and we're just going to shoot the shit on some stuff, and we have no idea what the other person is going to bring up as the topic. And then we just talk about that topic.
(01:39):
Last episode, Rob got to pick first. So this episode I'm going to pick first and we typically get through a couple of topics. It won't be a lot of topics. So, I get to pick first. And my topic today is money.
Rob Dube (01:55):
Yes. What?
Gino Wickman (02:00):
Yes.
Rob Dube (02:01):
Did you know that's one of my favorite topics?
Gino Wickman (02:03):
Is it really?
Rob Dube (02:04):
Yeah, it's not on my list.
Gino Wickman (02:05):
You're serious right now.
Rob Dube (02:06):
I swear to God-
Gino Wickman (02:06):
I love it.
Rob Dube (02:07):
I talk about it with people all the time.
Gino Wickman (02:08):
So then humor me on this because I want you to go first, but I want to say something because I believe the world needs to talk about money. Everybody needs to talk about money. It's the craziest taboo topic and it's doing so much damage that we don't. So why did you just get so excited about that? Tell me, give me your history, but why? What comes to mind for you?
Rob Dube (02:28):
I'll give you my history and it goes like this. When I was younger, I would ... and I am a runner and I lived in a suburb of Detroit called Birmingham. And I would run around Birmingham calculating how much more time I had on my mortgage because I was intent that I wanted to pay my mortgage off by a certain period of time because that somehow represented freedom to me. And then I would start calculating if I pay double, how more quickly I could do it, etc. And that I might sound good maybe to some, but actually it was one of the most painful things that was happening to me because I was thinking about it constantly and how much am I making and can I make more payments, and could I do this sooner? And what if this happened and what if that happened. So that's kind of the origin for me was like, "What's your deal with money, Rob?" And that's when I started looking into what was my deal with money.
Gino Wickman (03:30):
Interesting. So the things that come up for me is, and maybe why I'm so passionate about this topic is I have spent too much of my life helping people dig out of holes that they dug themselves into. I'm not going to name any names, but people that have made hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions and millions of dollars and pissed it all away. And what it helped me realize is the ignorance that exists on this planet about money. So I'll start with the basic big picture premise that I want to burn into the brain of every human being and that is the definition of financial independence.
(04:13):
Now that's just my definition. You do with this what you will, but the definition of financial independence is you have enough money invested that the return and the interest that those investments pay you will support your lifestyle. That's financial independence and there's no other definition. So for driven entrepreneurs, which are the fricking people that I've spent my life digging out of holes, you have this gift. You are driven and passionate and risk-takers and all these wonderful things, but you mostly suck with money. And so you it all away. And I have been obsessed about helping you keep your money, be wealthy. And what happens is the driven entrepreneur is so good at making money. They think they're going to keep making money forever. Well, that stops at some point and most die broke. So there's where the passion comes from. I haven't gotten specific yet. But what does that prompt for you?
Rob Dube (05:18):
Well, the first thing that was coming to mind for me was something very similar to what you were saying, but where I started to pick up on that, but no one ever directly sat down with me and taught me it. So, my mom was very mindful of money and still is. And in some ways, it's not good. And in other ways, it's amazing because she did set herself up with her husband, my stepfather, to be in a good position in their lives and be comfortable.
Gino Wickman (05:52):
Thank goodness.
Rob Dube (05:52):
For the lifestyle as you say that they desire, which isn't anything extravagant. But on the flip side of that, there was a lot of angst around money as a result. And so that was the part that I was struggling with more emotionally. So, I think you bring up kind of a practical side to it, which I think is really important and keeps coming back to me. And so I want to see where you want to go with this, your topic, but I go emotional and that's the part I've always been really focused on because I really felt like I had a fairly good foundation on planning well and having good advice, seeking out and finding good advice on how to make sure I did that.
Gino Wickman (06:35):
Yeah. So, I want to do a quick riff here with a bunch of tangibles because the emotional side of it, again, this is just my kooky little simple mind that if you understand these practical steps, it will smoke out all of your emotional issues. So that's just the way my brain works and I have seen it to be true too many times not to believe it. So let's get to the practical stuff. Okay.
(06:56):
So, first of all, the definition of financial independence. You've got enough money invested, whether that's real estate or stocks or businesses or whatever, but it's throwing off enough money for you to live on. Simply put, if you have a $50,000 a year lifestyle, you need a million dollars invested throwing off 5%, that's 50 grand to be financially independent for the rest of your life. That's really fast math. Some of you have million-dollar lifestyles. By the way, as the saying goes, the fastest way to wealth is to not only increase your income, but it's also to augment your means. And so if you're not, is a million dollars a year, please cut that back.
(07:32):
Anyway, I first teach the three buckets to financial freedom. This is out there, you can actually Google this, but it's understanding that there are three buckets in your financial life. There's the first bucket that is where you put three to six months of living expenses. That's your security bucket that when the hits the fan and it will, you need to be able to survive with no income. So if you have $100,000 a year lifestyle, you need 50 grand sitting in that account and never touch it. It's for an emergency. Second bucket is your retirement bucket. And so if your number is a million dollars at age 60, it's you do the math on how much you need to put away every single week until you hit a million dollars. If that's a thousand dollars a month, then you put a thousand dollars a month away for the next 40 years. Start young. This should be taught in every school in eighth grade for what that's worth. And then there's the third bucket when the first two buckets are full and on track is the risk bucket and that's where you can take some flyers, take some risk, things like that.
(08:24):
Second thing is a budget. Track your expenses, be honest about what you're spending. And then the last thing is two books I urge everyone to read, which is Richest Man in Babylon and the Millionaire Next Door. The Richest Man in Babylon helps you understand that 10% of everything you earn is yours to keep forever. That's that security bucket. You got to save 10% and please start ... My kids started when they were 14 years old. So please start early. You will be wealthy if you will follow this discipline. And then Millionaire Next Door shows you the power of it's not the person driving the Lamborghini that is rich and wealthy. As a matter of fact, they're typically the ones in the most debt. And so to understand what real wealth looks like and how wealthy people act, that book is one of the best books I've ever read.
(09:07):
So, that's that. And then I would just love to throw discipline number one, ten-year thinking in there. This is a great opportunity. Just know your number. You got to know your number. I believe all of us walking the earth, it's like I want to say to everybody, stop them on the street and say, "What's your number right now?" "What's your net worth?" And if your net worth is minus $200,000, I was there at 33 years old.
(09:30):
I know what it's like to be deeply in debt, went from a millionaire to $200,000 in debt. But the point is, what's your number to admit your number if it's upside down or right side up, talk about it. Create awareness. It will start to get you through those emotional issues. So know your current number, net worth plus or minus, and then know the big number. What's the number you're striving for? Do the math. Save 10% at a minimum. I've always saved 20 to 30%, but I did go broke three times, so I had to learn the hard way until I was 33 years old. What does that prompt for you, my friend?
Rob Dube (10:08):
The only thing I'm going to have to add, I can't even get the words out of my mouth because it's all very practical and I don't want to add anything, actually. I think it's great advice. I will say I didn't know you had a Financial 101 course. So that was a really cool thing to learn that. So how does the rest of the world take your Financial 101 course?
Gino Wickman (10:27):
I got bigger fish to fry. Nothing personal like that. Go read a good book. I've already given it to you.
Rob Dube (10:31):
But I love your books.
Gino Wickman (10:32):
Just do what I said, everybody. And then I would just add two more things in all of this to get to this emotional thing. Money is not the root of all evil. And the camel fitting through the eye of a needle is grossly misunderstood in the Bible. That is not how it was intended. And I've heard a preacher describe it in the most perfect way, and I wish I could do that. But it's an analogy about a mountain that has a hole called the Eye of the Needle, and it just talks about how you have to shed your shit. The camel needs to remove everything it's carrying to fit through that eye of the needle in the mountain.
(11:08):
So, anyway, I just want you to know that money's not the root of all evil. Anyway, with that said, it's the lust for money that's the root of all evil, by the way. And so I feel I've said it all because I want to get to your topic in less than the 20 minutes that we have for this episode.
Rob Dube (11:25):
So in one of our topics before we talked about one that it's been pretty popular, the fight. The Gino and Rob fight. So I thought talking about airing laundry, for lack of a better way of saying it, I thought we could talk about a company that we were partners in but are no longer called E-Leap, which you are still a partner in with another partner.
Gino Wickman (11:50):
Yes.
Rob Dube (11:51):
And so let me cue up and then see.
Gino Wickman (11:54):
I love it. Love that you're bringing this up.
Rob Dube (11:55):
Okay, I wasn't sure I could.
Gino Wickman (11:56):
Oh, why not?
Rob Dube (11:57):
I don't know. Anyway, I'm not a partner anymore, so I was afraid to intrude. So what was it, two years ago or so, I talked to you about maybe doing something with E-Leap as partners, but you had other suitors as well. And to make a long story short, we ended up in a partnership with six total people. You and I were two of them. So I want to go to myself emotionally at that time as I reflect on it where .... and I think I even mentioned to you, I was kind of like ... I don't understand how six partners is going to work in this startup here of that we're going out to try to teach people how to run great businesses. But I went forward and I thought about why'd I do that? So we could get more into that in a bit. But then ultimately two of the partners moved on, so we were down to four. That felt a little bit better.
(12:54):
But something still felt off to me. And I was thinking a lot about it. And at a certain point I mentioned to you most recently because this happened in the middle I think or so of 2024. And I just got quiet and I really was trying to pay attention to my intuition and what was needed. And what I began to notice actually was I felt like the energy that I was bringing into the company wasn't useful for the company.
(13:30):
It wasn't anything I don't believe that I was doing. You guys were real nice. You kind of even tried to maybe somewhat dissuade me from leaving, but I just thought my energy's off as it relates to this whole dynamic and I don't want to do that to the company. And I was worried about things like FOMO and what if it just blows up and I missed out and I gave two years and I invested money and all this. And I just thought, "You know what? I'm going to walk away clean. I'm just going to let them know I'm walking away. You don't have to pay me. Nothing. Just I'm gone. I wish you all the best." And it has felt so good.
Gino Wickman (14:10):
So happy you brought that up. And our previous episode that we did was where we talked about how the 10 Disciplines solve every issue in business, and we could apply that to this conversation. But if you remember the list of 10 issues I listed, I wrote E-Leap as one of them. And that is this topic I was hoping in that conversation we talk about how the 10 Disciplines helped lead you to your decision. But what I'd love to do is I want to zoom out and share some color around what you said. I would ask that we don't disclose names to protect the innocent. I don't think that's appropriate, but it's such a powerful story in that, like you said, we started with six partners and then we parted ways with the first two. And we didn't know those first two really well, but the next two we knew really well. And so the final four, we love each other. I mean there's a love there.
(15:00):
And so it was hard. And so I'll jokingly say when we look at those six partners in those four, never have six highly intelligent people accomplished so little in two years. It was brutal. It was brutal. So it just wasn't working and it wasn't working and it wasn't working. So in that final, the four of us got on a Zoom call and spent two or three hours as vulnerable as open and as honest. And we looked at three scenarios, all of which were brutal. And we had no idea who was going to be left at the end of it. But the decisions were so healthy and so mature and so fascinating to me. And so now there's two of us left. And so my partner and I in E-Leap are now taken to the next level. We have gotten a ton of momentum because I believe you're right, there's just an energy that was off. I wish I could put my finger on it, but it was just off.
(15:58):
And it was really hard because one of the scenarios is where my partner would've been gone and I would've been partners with someone else. And for you to willingly say, I need to move on, I would love for you to share your thought process because you were noticeably freer, brighter the day you made the decision. Anyway, you feel like you're going to miss out on something if this thing blows up, I'm sitting here going, "Holy shit, I want to look that peaceful about this because I'm in the fucking throes of it right now." Anyway, so please speak to your process that was so powerful.
Rob Dube (16:38):
Well, there's two things that came to mind and I'll answer that. But I think that the process of just getting quiet, and you have a great podcast episode, and I don't know what it's going to be or I forget the title of it, but it's about your intuition. Do you remember the title of that?
Gino Wickman (16:57):
Yeah. It was Making Business Decisions on Intuition.
Rob Dube (17:00):
And what I've noticed both in my process with E-Leap, but in other investments and businesses that I may have been involved with, it's always very business oriented. In other words, "What do I have to lose here financially and less so on the other side of things, what am I giving up emotionally by staying part of this?" "What am I doing that might be holding this whole thing back?" And I didn't ... And this is where this one thought that had come to me, which is the current person running the company, I coach him. And I remember after the decision, I called him and I said, "You're free now. You're free. Go fly, my man." And boy has he.
Gino Wickman (17:47):
Oh my God.
Rob Dube (17:49):
Actually, a month went by or six weeks. And there was a lot of things that happened. I found out about them and I went, "Wow, there is a little FOMO going on right now." My friend would let it go because it wouldn't have happened otherwise. He needed to fly. And those come up to me. And I just feel so good about the whole thing, honestly, for you guys, for the company, for the people that are going to be served by the company in the future. And then, of course, for myself. I do. I feel very free about it.
Gino Wickman (18:25):
Yeah. Yeah. So cool. And so it prompted just a couple more thoughts. Number one, I'm just in awe of how amicable and healthy the separation was for all parties involved. The company, like you said, is doing better than ever. We're not out of the water by any stretch, but at least it's doing better than ever. And it's like I think of the listeners out there, there's a lesson out there like energy is the word that's coming to me in this conversation. And you out there have heard us say the word energy 10 times so far in this conversation, at least it's all about energy. And so if you are in a partnership that's just off or employees check the energy, when you find the right fit, culturally, energetically alignment, you can feel that energy and things move forward. And when you don't, it's palatable. You know it.
(19:11):
So I just urge you to check yourself for those of you that have partners and people that ... And then I love how you said, "My partner, man, is he free?"
Rob Dube (19:37):
Love it. Love it. Anything else on this coffee shop?
Gino Wickman (19:41):
I feel like we've pulled off a perfect 20-minute episode.
Rob Dube (19:46):
Oh my God, I love it. Okay, Gino. Well, thanks again to all of you listening. We greatly appreciate your time as always, and stay focused, and much love.
Gino Wickman (19:58):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to Shed and Shine podcast comm to take the True Self assessment and receive personalized guidance.
(20:18):
If you're ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines Group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self, stay focused, and much love.
