Gino Wickman (00:00):
Welcome to the Shed and Shine podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube and I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom, and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
Rob Dube (00:21):
Hi, everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I am here with my good friend, Gino Wickman, in this studio. We're together. I'm very happy to be able to do this with you in person.
Gino Wickman (00:33):
For the first time ever.
Rob Dube (00:34):
That's a lot of fun. That's a lot fun.
Gino Wickman (00:35):
Eyeball to eyeball, baby.
Rob Dube (00:37):
I had a dream that we'd do this. You remember that?
Gino Wickman (00:39):
Well, I remember you sharing what you hoped. I don't remember it was in a dream.
Rob Dube (00:43):
It wasn't an actual sleeping dream, but it was a dream that we would actually be able to produce this podcast in person.
Gino Wickman (00:49):
Ah, yes. That, I remember.
Rob Dube (00:50):
And you told me no way were we doing that, but here we are.
Gino Wickman (00:53):
Yes.
Rob Dube (00:54):
I guess I got my way.
Gino Wickman (00:54):
You did.
Rob Dube (00:56):
The two of us are fresh off of our sabbatical. You were off all of August. I was off most of August. And I'm curious what you did with your time. But before you answer, I do want to say one thing. We're going to share a little bit about what each other did, but then we're going to get into the practical matter of how you set yourself up for a sabbatical. But we wanted to start this way. So, what did you do?
Gino Wickman (01:24):
So, what did I do? It's funny, I get asked that every time. So, I've been doing a sabbatical for almost 25 years now. I take the month of August off every year, and every one is different. So, it's never the same thing. And a lot of times people will ask, "Where'd you go?" That's their first question. And I say, "I didn't go anywhere."
(01:47):
The idea behind a sabbatical, for me, we're all different, is to just simply not work. And so, I keep a very normal life, and so, I always describe how what it's all about for me is family, friends, and myself. And so, that's what I do is I spend time with my family, I spend time with my friends and I spend time with myself, and I just don't do any work. I don't think about work.
(02:10):
And so, every sabbatical's different, like I said. Every outcome's different. There's always something profound that happens in each one. But now I want to jump to the answer to your question, which is, what did I do? Rob, I did nothing. I did nothing. This was the laziest sabbatical I've ever had. I was lazy and I did nothing. So, I want to explain that. Same drill. It was family, friends, and myself. But one of the things I do on sabbatical is I always kind of create this wish list of things I would love to get done during the sabbatical. Again, they're all personal related, and that might be reading a book or getting a project done around the house. Whatever it is, it's a bunch of different stuff. So, I went into this sabbatical with about 25 things on my list, and I did about two of them. I did nothing. I did nothing. It was so good.
(03:09):
And so, what I just did is I simply did whatever came every day. So, I just went with whatever came up. So, again, I keep saying it, a lot of time with family, friends and myself. But I will share one thing I did that was really cool, and one of the 25 things was in all this wonderful work we've done with Shine and my last four years of digging deep ... And I talk about when I put on my suit of armor at age 15. Prior to that, again, I was a very creative, sensitive kid, but from age 9 to 14, I was very artistic. And so, I used to draw, paint, and I was pretty darn good at it. So, I went back to that. I went back to being 14 years old and I spent a bit of time just getting lost in ... We have a church next to us, we live in a downtown area, and I drew the church. So anyway, just spent a lot of time with colors and drawing and that was just really cool.
(04:07):
But short answer, I did nothing and I loved it. I loved it. And then one other ... The profound thing I think that came out of it is just simply, I realize I'm just simply resting right now. I'm just getting ready for the next thing. I talked more about this in one of my riffs, and I think it's going to air before this, so everybody will know what that means at this point. But just feel like I'm resting and getting ready for the next thing that calls me. So, for what that's worth.
Rob Dube (04:40):
So, are you up for sharing with me one of your pictures at some point? I would love to see one. Or, are you not ready to do that yet?
Gino Wickman (04:48):
Well, I'll share it with you.
Rob Dube (04:51):
Yeah. We won't put it out to the world, Gino.
Gino Wickman (04:54):
No. Oh, I will absolutely share it with you. I'll share one with you.
Rob Dube (04:54):
I'm so excited.
Gino Wickman (04:56):
Yeah. I'll text it to you. So, you just need to remind me. Text me and then I'll text you one of them.
Rob Dube (05:00):
Okay. Okay. So, let me share a little bit about what-
Gino Wickman (05:04):
Wouldn't that be funny if it was just horrible? I mean, just like awful. Like a stick figure, a round head on a stick body.
Rob Dube (05:11):
That would be funny. I have a lot of follow-up questions, but we don't have enough time for that kind of thing.
Gino Wickman (05:18):
That's true.
Rob Dube (05:19):
It's just the way it is.
Gino Wickman (05:19):
But here's what I would like to ask though. So, what did you do? So, what's so cool is you and I both returned from our sabbatical at the same time. I took five weeks off, by the way, another interesting thing. Mine have always been kind of four week, the full month of August. So, five weeks these last two years, which is kind of cool. And I do start getting really itchy on the fifth week and ready to come back. So, I really felt that stirring, which was kind of cool, just ready to get back at it. But what did you do? Tell us.
Rob Dube (05:45):
Well, the first thing I wanted to mention, I was thinking about this and you don't know this about me, but I was actually taking sabbaticals before you knew me.
Gino Wickman (05:52):
What?
Rob Dube (05:52):
Yeah, I would go away ... Did you know that?
Gino Wickman (05:54):
No, I did not know that.
Rob Dube (05:54):
You didn't know that about me.
Gino Wickman (05:54):
No.
Rob Dube (05:55):
Yeah. So, I would go away for about three weeks.
Gino Wickman (05:58):
Oh, cool.
Rob Dube (05:58):
And my business partner at the time, Joel, he would get super mad at me.
Gino Wickman (06:02):
I love it.
Rob Dube (06:03):
And there was no technology back then.
Gino Wickman (06:04):
I know Joel well. Yeah.
Rob Dube (06:06):
So, he thought it was so ridiculous that I wasn't going to talk to him on the phone. I didn't want to know anything about business. And so, I felt really guilty about the whole thing. So, I stopped. And then I started picking it up a little bit as I got older again and got to know you and being inspired by you.
(06:23):
So, anyway, that just popped up for me. And you and I had a similar experience, but I want to start by saying the first thing I did, literally the first day of sabbatical, is I got on a plane and I went to see somebody that I do psychedelic therapy with.
Gino Wickman (06:42):
Oh, cool.
Rob Dube (06:42):
And so, I did a journey. And so, that was a day. And then I came back and we did a lot of integration over the month.
Gino Wickman (06:50):
Nice.
Rob Dube (06:50):
So, that was really great. I intentionally allowed myself to wake up at whatever time I woke up, and I wanted to see what time that would be. I was curious about that, what my body needed. I had no plans. I had not one commitment. And I woke up and just let the day unfold. So, whatever I felt like doing in the present moment is what I ended up doing.
(07:20):
So, sometimes I was doing some writing, and that's my drawing. I love writing. So, I was doing some writing. I was doing some reading and catching up on some things. I was listening to some podcasts that I hadn't listened to before. And I got out in nature a lot more than I usually get to. I did a lot of hiking. It was just so great. And swam in Lake Michigan. I don't do enough of that. And all that kind of good stuff. I think I could have gone two more weeks, is what I think I could have done.
Gino Wickman (07:50):
Nice.
Rob Dube (07:51):
Yeah. I felt like I wasn't quite ready to come back, but I was really grateful that I was able to do it. And most importantly, I spent an awful lot of time with Emily, my wife.
Gino Wickman (08:02):
Nice.
Rob Dube (08:03):
That was beautiful. We really had great, fun connection together every single day.
Gino Wickman (08:09):
And if you're done with your list, you prompted a few thoughts because I love how specific you were. With saying I did nothing, I played three or four rounds of golf, lots of dinners with my wife in terms of going out to dinner, a lot of time with my kids. We did some babysitting of our grandson. I read two books, and what's great is they were just history books. So, really cool. Just on the death of Lincoln, and then a great book about Elvis Presley, John Lennon and Muhammad Ali. I mean, just some great historical fascinating stuff.
Rob Dube (08:45):
Ooh, that's a good one.
Gino Wickman (08:45):
So, that was a lot of fun. I just got lost in those. Kathy and I did go away. We went away for six days to the Berkshires, stayed at a resort there, which was really cool. And like you said, a lot of time with my wife, Kathy.
Rob Dube (08:58):
Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Okay. So, one of the things I was thinking about in terms of logistics of all this, when you first started taking sabbatical, what were some of the challenges that you were facing around doing that and being prepared for it, just feeling comfortable stepping away? Because I think there's a lot of great lessons out there for people, that's a big fear of theirs.
Gino Wickman (09:27):
Yeah. Are we going to talk in this question about the process?
Rob Dube (09:27):
Mm-hmm.
Gino Wickman (09:34):
Because I can't answer that without getting into the process because when you talk about challenges, I'm an odd duck because there weren't any challenges. In other words, when I make the decision, it's other people's challenges, not mine. I'm taking the frickin month off.
(09:50):
So, this started for me when my daughter was born. So, this goes all the way back to my mid-20s when my daughter was born. I took the month off and experienced it for the first time. And so, I am really comfortable taking time off. And at that time, I was selling real estate, and in that month I probably lost two deals. And then, the person that was handling my business, I had to pay 50% of my commission to them. So, I lost thousands of dollars taking the month off and I don't give a shit. In other words, it's like that is so minor.
(10:25):
And so, when you talk about challenges, it just makes me think about driven entrepreneurs and thinking about taking the month off. You're thinking about, "What am I going to lose?" Business loss, things like that. It's like, that's irrelevant to me. That doesn't even factor into my mind. So, with that said, I don't view it as challenges. I view it as a process. So, when I got that taste of turning the world off for a month during a very busy time, so very busy in my 20s, what I simply do, if we want to articulate this as a process, is I just have a great support system. First of all, I have an amazing assistant that runs my life. And I don't know how you take a sabbatical without an assistant. So, I think it's like non-negotiable for anyone out there that's thinking of taking a sabbatical because you can never access email on a sabbatical. It's not a sabbatical if you read a business email.
(11:22):
So, the first thing is, I've got a great team that supports me. In building EOS Worldwide, I had a great integrator that ran the day-to-day of that business. And so, I was able to leave and the show went on. Were there issues that arose? Yes. One time, remember one sabbatical, there was an issue with my book Traction and somebody that wrote a book called Traction and my partner didn't understand and thought that that was illegal. Well, you can put any title on any book. And so, there was a legal battle that happened while I was gone. And if I were there, I would've shut it down in one second, because I would've said, "This is no big deal." And so the attorneys got involved, we're paying attorney. Anyway, long story short stuff's going to happen. I don't care. So, those aren't challenges to me.
(12:06):
So, I have a great team in place, and then I prepare that team well. I'm so adamant about ... I jokingly say the FBI can't find me on sabbatical. And so, everybody knows that I'm turning the world off. I'm not thinking about business. Solve your business problems. Unless the whole thing's going to come crashing down, you can't call me. So, that is a part of preparation.
(12:28):
And then, the last thing that I would share is after you've done it for 20-plus years, everyone in my life, everyone knows I'm on sabbatical in August. And so, the beauty is the more you do this, every year you do this, the easier it gets because everybody's just conditioned. People just know they can't get ahold of me.
(12:44):
And then, the one thing that happened with texting is texts pierce the shield. And so, before texting, nobody could get to me. Now, unfortunately, with this phone that I have, a text can come through. I'm very disciplined about if it's a business-related text, I just immediately reply and say, "I'm on sabbatical." Because everybody knows I am. And urge them to reach out to Karen if they need something, or I'll respond, in this case, on September 3rd, I think was the date back. So, those are the preparation items that make it a great sabbatical for me.
Rob Dube (13:15):
So, let me build on preparation-
Gino Wickman (13:15):
Yeah. Please.
Rob Dube (13:17):
... because there are some teachings out there and we teach it, around taking a test run. So, it sounds to me like you jumped in and just did it. You had the right pieces in place.
(13:34):
For those that are looking for other ways of doing it, you can start by setting your intentions with your team in advance, as far in advance as a year, let them know, "Next year at this time I'm taking a 30-day sabbatical." And between that time and the year, you maybe start with one week where you are just totally off, they can't contact you, and see how it goes. Come back, download with them, "How did it go? What came up? What could we do differently next time?" Then expand it out to two weeks a few months later, and then do another two week, and then do the full sabbatical.
(14:14):
So, just really getting the team in the right mindset, getting yourself in the right mindset, testing it all out and seeing how it all unfolds so you can work out the kinks. Because ultimately, once you're on that 30-day or however long sabbatical, which is actually a question I have for you, we'll come back to that, as Gino says, the FBI shouldn't be able to find you. Any other thoughts?
Gino Wickman (14:41):
No. Where I'm compelled to go to now is the benefits, but I don't think you're going there yet. But I'd love to, before we wrap up, I would just love to just share two really big benefits because my hopes-
Rob Dube (14:53):
Let me ask you one question. Let's go benefits.
Gino Wickman (14:54):
Please. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Dube (14:55):
What amount of time is a sabbatical? I was thinking about that.
Gino Wickman (15:00):
Oh, I love that. I love that question. So, it's really great because another one of my business partners could never take time off. And so, he texted me and he said he's going on a seven-day sabbatical. And I mean, I laughed so loud.
Rob Dube (15:15):
That's great.
Gino Wickman (15:16):
I can't remember now if this was a conversation we ... I think it might've been a verbal conversation. I laughed so hard. And then, I won't say the name, to protect the innocent, but I just said, "The name, a seven-day sabbatical is a vacation. Okay? That's a vacation." Which this person rarely ever took a vacation, so they can't even comprehend. So, in my simple, little mind, 14 days or less is a vacation, three weeks or more is a sabbatical. That's my simple way of looking at it.
Rob Dube (15:46):
Okay. I love it. So, three weeks or more, everyone-
Gino Wickman (15:50):
Yes.
Rob Dube (15:50):
... work towards that.
Gino Wickman (15:51):
Yes.
Rob Dube (15:52):
And go for at least 30 days. I like that.
Gino Wickman (15:54):
Yeah. And for what it's worth, I'll share one more thing on that, because I don't believe ... For me, the benefits of the sabbatical kick in like week three. In other words, to completely decompress and shift your energy and shed all the business stuff, it's still in there for two weeks. So, it's like week three is when you really start to go to this place where, "I am free from work right now." So, if nothing else, that's why that timeframe is so important.
Rob Dube (16:23):
That's good. All right. So, let's move to benefits.
Gino Wickman (16:26):
Yeah. So, as you're talking, I just want to make sure this is clear, because what I hope ... Again, I'm a teacher at heart, I want to motivate our audience of driven entrepreneurs to do this, not so that they can say they did, not for some selfish benefit. This will make you a better entrepreneur. This will make you a better leader. This will make you a better person. It's so vital because number one, what it does is it helps you completely recharge. Okay? And so, I always talk about how when I go on sabbatical, I do everything in my power to forget what I do for a living. And I literally do, because what I hope is that I'm still motivated to do what I do. And if I ever don't feel motivated, then I will switch on a dime what I do for a living. And so, thank God every year I come back, I still want to do that.
(17:14):
The point is, by turning it off to that degree, you completely recharge everything. Your body, your soul, your brain, all of it. And so, you come back fully recharged. I believe I'm further ahead by taking that month off every year in the last 25 years than thinking about, "What revenue did I miss out on or what opportunities did I miss out on in those 20-something months that I was away in the last 20-something years?"
(17:40):
And then the second thing that came to me, that I'm eager to share is, if you ever want to sell your business, if you can leave your business for 30 days and it still runs, I wish I could give you the math, but my quick math would say your business is worth at least 10% more. Okay?
Rob Dube (17:59):
Yeah.
Gino Wickman (18:00):
And so, if you build a business that is not dependent on you, there will be more buyers, it will be worth more. And if your business can sustain for a month without you, you're really close to having a self-sustaining business. So, for what that's worth. That should motivate somebody. So, any revenue you think you're missing out on, you'll 10X it on the back end in terms of increasing the value of your business.
Rob Dube (18:23):
I think two additional things that come to my mind. First is, your mind gets very clear. And so, when you come back, you have a different kind of energy without question, better ideas, new things that you want to get focused on. Super focused, actually, just an amazing focus when you get back.
(18:43):
The other thing that I love about it is there's some team development that takes place because you have now completely empowered your team to handle all the responsibilities with you gone. So, they know it's all on them. And that is such a great gift to give to your team. Yeah, go ahead.
Gino Wickman (19:03):
But that gets to the point I'm making about your company will be worth more-
Rob Dube (19:06):
Exactly. Exactly.
Gino Wickman (19:06):
... because you elevated leaders, got them to think for themselves, run that company without you, and that's what people want to buy.
Rob Dube (19:12):
Yeah. You got it. You got it. All right. Well, I think we're going to wrap this one up. Do you have any last-
Gino Wickman (19:18):
We've said it all. We've said it all.
Rob Dube (19:19):
You have? Okay. All right. Great. Thank you for joining us on the Shed and Shine podcast. We're so grateful to you. And as we always like to say, stay focused and much love.
Gino Wickman (19:31):
Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self assessment and receive personalized guidance.
(19:51):
If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines group coaching program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
