EP 17_ GINO & ROB - DISCOVERY 2 DECISIONS ARE MADE OUT OF LOVE OR FEAR
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[00:00:00] Gino Wickman: Welcome to the Shed and Shine Podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube and I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
[00:00:22] Rob Dube: Hello and welcome back everyone. My name is Rob Dube and I'm here with Gino Wickman. Gino, as always, it is so great to see you.
[00:00:33] Gino Wickman: Right back at you, my brother.
[00:00:35] Rob Dube: Today, Gino, we're going to discuss Discovery #2 from our book Shine, Decisions Are Made Out of Love or Fear. Now, Gino, you touched on this at a high level in Episode 6, but today we're going to expand on it a bit.
And I want you to start for us by providing context, as you always so masterfully do. So what do we mean by decisions are made from love and fear?
[00:01:04] Gino Wickman: All right. We’ll do context first. I'm going really far out and I'm making sure everybody understands there are 3 Discoveries to free your True Self that we teach in the first half of the book.
We're going to drill down on Discovery #2, all decisions are made out of love or fear, as you just said, but what we're going to bask in for the next 10 or 20 minutes is just the concept of love- and fear-based decisions. We're not going to go into the four levels right now. We're just going to kind of keep it right in that love- and fear-based.
Now, here we go. Decisions, but also thoughts, feelings, emotions. So as we beings walk the earth all day, every day, there's stuff going on inside of us, stirrings, et cetera. Those are all the decisions, the feelings, the emotions, the thoughts. And we're going to hopefully create some real clarity for you around what's going on, how it all works.
So that we can then take you deep into the four levels.
[00:02:07] Rob Dube: Yeah, so a couple of questions on this one. Why is this important for driven entrepreneurs to realize? And I'm also curious how this came to you.
[00:02:18] Gino Wickman: Yeah, that's great. So I'll start with how it came to me and then we'll go to why it's important. Because I can never remember in every case, the exact moment that it came so clear that it had to be a thing, you know, a tool, a teaching, an insight or whatever.
But what I recall is, you know, the 10 or 20 different books I read, conversations I had, people I learned from. So what happens is I just have this way of seeing patterns and trends. And in all of those patterns and trends, it was just so abundantly clear that it's all, everything going on, it's either love-based or fear-based.
And then everything that's going on, the words I would keep hearing over and over are decisions, thoughts, feelings, and emotions. So, it just comes from those patterns and those trends, but there's one I want to key in on, and it's something I learned from Dani Brooks, and we put this in the book because I thought she did probably one of the best jobs I've seen defining this, and what she creates for us are these two columns, and she talks about one column is ego activity, and the other column is True Self activity, and so again, we call the ego fear.
And True Self is love or soul. And so she just talks about the activities that go on when our ego is online. So think of all of these as fea- based activities. So fear, dread, uncertainty, anxiety, anger, frustration, stress, difficulty, guilt and shame, judgment, lack, self doubt, worry, apathy, resignation, cynicism.
You can call all those things what you want to call them, but whenever those things are showing up all day every day, that's fear-based stuff going on inside of you, which can all be shed. More on that later. And then there's the True Self activity, the love-based activity, that goes on all day, every day, or what is possible.
And that is unconditional love, safety, certainty, inner knowing, intuition, calm, ease, peace, acceptance, freedom, joy. I choose in flow, open, wisdom, openness. And so, she, with that tool, almost like brought it all together for me, but there were, like I said, 10 or 20, probably 100, if I look back in the last 30 years, that all just kind of culminated into this clarity that, wow, here's what's going on for us beings.
Now, to your first question, why is this important for driven entrepreneurs? The truth of the matter is, this is important for everybody, all 8.5 billion, I just happen to specialize in driven entrepreneurs, they happen to be my life, I happen to obsess about them. I am here to help them get everything they want out of their business and life, and so I'm just bringing this ah ha to them in the hopes that they'll bring it to the other 8.5 billion people through their example of shedding all this fear-based shit, as we lovingly like to say, and living a much more love-based decision life.
[00:05:31] Rob Dube: Yeah. You know, some people who I talk to about this say to me, you know, I use fear as a motivator. It's something that I need in my life. What do you think about that?
What do you say?
[00:05:42] Gino Wickman: Well, so I get it. I did too. It can serve us well as driven entrepreneurs. So, my first response is, hey, if that's working for you, keep doing it. It's working because what we realize and what I've learned is we can build incredible outer world success with fear-based decisions, with living on the edge with fear-based stuff, it's just, I've learned there's a different world, the inner world, and when that is right, and that is peaceful, you actually make better decisions.
You make more of an impact. You get more done. And so I just urge you, I hope to ping some souls out there, just consider this approach because when it's a fear-based approach and you think that's where you're getting your drive and your edge from, you are. That's an outside-in approach to the world where you're measuring everything against the outside world, competition, comparison, judgment.
This shift to more love-based shifts to an inside-out approach to the world where it's coming from a calling, intuition, purpose, and you just make better decisions. You're clearer, you're happier, you're more peaceful. So I urge you to try it on if it pings your soul. Worst case, go keep making your fear-based decisions building an amazing outside world.
[00:07:04] Rob Dube: You know, I was thinking about this for myself when I used to run my other company, ImageOne, and you know, simple examples of fear-based decisions like having a salesperson who totally did not fit our culture was very disruptive, but I was afraid to lose the associated revenue that they would bring in each and every year.
So I kept them around to the detriment of the entire team. Or, you know, I remember having a big, uh, more than one occasion, quite frankly, pricing fears. So going in too aggressive for fear we were going to lose a client instead of being really coming from my heart and saying, this is what we deserve from, from a love, from a place of love and price.
So those are a couple of things I'm wondering, does anything come up for you?
[00:07:49] Gino Wickman: As we're talking, you know, I'm sure there will be a few things that come up, but just your point that you said there, if I had a nickel for every client and every time I've experienced it in my businesses, where you have that person who is a terrible fit in the organization, terrible fit, but they're so fricking productive, those people are doing so much damage to our cultures that we can't even see most of what they're doing because it's so under the radar and stealthy.
Yeah. And so that's a fear-based decision where you're so afraid to let them go and lose that revenue. So certainly protect yourself, but that is fear-based. So I think thank you for that example, because if our audience is all driven entrepreneurs, they've all dealt with that, or they're dealing with that at this moment, and I would urge you to just take a love-based view of that issue and see what comes up for you.
It might have you take a longer term view in solving that problem, but if you're hanging on to that person, it is fear-based. Perfect example. And the next thing I'd like to share before any other examples percolate, because I think the more examples, the better, I want to give a little bit of context on this because the other thing that comes up for me, and even as you know, you mentioned we'd be talking about this today, is, I think of triggering. So that's the best word I can use, but when anything comes up for you, and so whether that's a decision that you're triggered to have to make, whether that's an emotion that has been triggered for you, a thought, whatever it is, at that moment, again, what I've learned now in studying and watching all this for 10, 20 years, is at that moment, we then have an opportunity to react or respond and most of us react. And when it's reactive, I've learned that that's fear-based. When you're feeling this emotional need to react with what was said, which is typically an anger-based reaction, that's all fear. When you realize that you can respond, take a deep breath, come from the inside-out, you'll respond better to these things, you'll make better decisions. So it's when you get triggered, are you reacting or are you responding?
And then the other place my mind went to, and I don't know if this is appropriate or not, but I'm just going to share it, because it's what flashed into my mind this morning, and it's going to help hopefully understand the evolution of this and what's possible because going all the way back to when I was 15, as I've shared in this book, and as we've talked about on this podcast, and I put on my suit of armor to tuck down all the pain from the past.
Once I did that, I created this persona, this tough guy image, hard worker, and so I went forward and I just worked and I fought and I just put my head down and realized I was a very angry kid. And so I've been in more fistfights from age 15 to 22 than I can count or remember. And there's a perfect example of those days when I was triggered by something, my reaction was to start throwing fists.
Now, I'm happy to say I never started one single fight, never started one, but anybody that wanted to fight, and I was still a tiny kid at 15, 16, and 17, but if somebody wanted to fight, I'm there. Somebody wanted to throw fists, I was ready. So back then, I was ready. I would react and my fear-based solution was to throw fists.
As I then matured in my 20s and 30s, my fear-based reaction was with words, but very intense, very angry words, very direct. And so now, later in life, as I've learned what I've learned in these last four or five years, is now all of a sudden it's no longer a reaction, although it still is. I'm not perfect, but most of the time it's now a response and it's this deep breath that I take and it just comes from the inside-out.
So if that story made sense, the first part of the story was all fear. The second part of the story is mostly love, but listen, I still react with anger sometimes, but it's so much better and different than what it once was. So this whole thing is a journey for all of us.
[00:12:04] Rob Dube: Yeah. Now I'm curious for a person, you know, oftentimes we're fearing things like loss, failure, or the unknown.
You know, we're hanging on to things within our business. Sometimes people, you know, concerned about losing material possessions or some of our outcomes that we want for our life. You know, can you talk a little bit about that?
[00:12:27] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and I really try hard to make this specific, but for some reason, as I continue to work on this content and do my best to articulate this content, because what I'm always trying to do is make this as practical and simple as possible.
So on that note, like an example that comes to me is I think of safety, you know, and I realized how unsafe I felt in my twenties and thirties. It started to shift toward the end of my thirties. But then when I look back at my childhood and my traumas and my pain, I see all those roots to why I felt unsafe, you know, so sex abuse, moving a lot, being bullied, so that the lack of safety then drove me to to make as much money as I could, because if I had a pile of money, I'd be safe and secure.
It drove me to keep friends and family as close as possible, because if my friends and family were as close as possible, I'd be safe. And all of a sudden, in that mentality, you're kind of protecting, you're attached, you're possessing, and so everything is fear-based. And all of a sudden, you're in this prison, because now every time you respond to someone in that world, it's going through a filter of how can I still stay safe and have this tough conversation, and you just never really have the tough conversation.
You candy coat it, you people please, you do everything in your power to keep the safety there, and it's this perpetuating doom loop. Did that make any sense? Absolutely, it did. And so now all of a sudden, so now again, I wish I could give you a specific answer. I don't know why I can't, but you know, let's go to a conversation with a family member or a conversation with a friend and it gets a little intense.
All of a sudden you got that thing hanging over you. You know, we call it the cocoon that has your True Self trapped in there. The cocoon's running the show. That intense conversation with the family member or the friend is so masked and manipulated and unclean. Ugh! So, when you come from the inside-out and get to that place and realize that you are safe, we are all safe.
Our ego has us fooled. We are all safe, unless somebody has a gun to your head, which happens occasionally. Otherwise, you're pretty darn safe. All of a sudden those conversations coming from that safe place from the inside-out are just clean and honest and then you'll find out who in your life you're attached to and you have your hooks in and they have their hooks in you and you clean all those messes up.
Anyway, hopefully that unspecific specific is specific enough.
[00:15:09] Rob Dube: Well, you know, one of the things, and I'm curious about this, you segued away perfectly into what I was thinking I wanted to ask you next, which is that I've received a lot of positive feedback from a challenging question that we wrote about in the book, which is, If you knew your significant other, best friend, or top employee would be better off without you, would you let them go?
You just mentioned hooks. Could you take your hooks out of them? And it's got a lot of people thinking. And, you know, for the listener, I encourage you to think about those answers and get curious if you are attached and hanging on to these people. What have you found as far as that goes in terms of getting your hooks out of people or vice versa?
[00:15:56] Gino Wickman: Yeah. And the reason I urged us to put that in the book is, that was shared with me probably 10 years ago, maybe 12. And it was mind blowing, but I couldn't comprehend it. So I remember sharing it with an audience two years ago, and it's an audience of 70 people.
And I asked that question to the audience, you know, this is true love. This is no attachment. This is no hooks. If the person you love, if you knew they were better off without you, would you let them go? And this guy yells out. Hell no! So, that's where I was 12 or 10 years ago when I heard this. So it's written about very well in Letting Go by David Hawkins.
Not that you need to run out and read it, but man, four years ago, it hit me like a ton of bricks during my awakening where it's like, Oh my God, I saw all the attachment and the hooks in my life, both me to others and others to me. But it's the litmus test. It's the litmus test if you're really in a loving relationship with your employees, with your friends, with your family.
If you knew they'd be better off without you, would you let them go? That goes for your employees. Let them go if they'd be better. Why are you hanging on? What's going on? What's at the root of that? And when you see that, you can then go to the root. You'll realize it's fear. You'll realize it's a layer to shed.
You'll realize it's tied to something typically between ages 5 and 14. So anyway, I love that you brought that up because that kind of says it all. And it also prompts, you know, there's this Rumi quote that I'll share, I won't say it perfectly, but he talks about how the journey is not about seeking or finding love.
It's seeking and finding all of the barriers against it. So we are already pure love. I mean, we are pure love. We just gotta look at all the barriers that are preventing us from being loving and that is the cocoon and that's what gets us in so much trouble. The cocoon is the fear-based stuff, the True Self at the center that's trapped in there is the love-based stuff.
[00:18:09] Rob Dube: So good. Alright, I think this is a good stopping point unless you have anything else you want to add.
[00:18:16] Gino Wickman: I don't, and I'm pausing because I guess this one last thing, it's like, I don't even know if there's value in this, but then I was thinking about, you know, love. So what is love and the little ways that it shows up?
And for what it's worth, there's a thousand ways to describe this. And what I shared in Dani Brooks' list earlier is the best place to go. I wrote down listening, taking a deep breath, compassion, empathy, courage. These are the words that when they're showing up throughout your day and that's where you're coming from, that's when love is showing up.
So anyway, for what that's worth, I wrote it, I wanted to say it, and there it is.
[00:19:01] Rob Dube: Very good, Gino. Thank you as always. So to wrap up this episode, I want to take a moment to remind you, the listener, that in addition to the Shed and Shine episodes that Gino and I record together, that every other episode, we release a solo riff from Gino, where he shares what's top of mind for him, all kinds of content from the book, new learnings and personal experiences.
So we hope you'll continue to listen each week, so you can continue to learn how to shed layers, free your True Self and shine!
[00:19:40] Gino Wickman: Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self Assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines Group Coaching Program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
