GINO AND ROB - SHINE WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW YOURSELF AS AN ENTREPRENEUR
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[00:00:00] Gino Wickman: Welcome to the Shed and Shine Podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube and I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
[00:00:22] Rob Dube: Hello and welcome back to the Shed and Shine Podcast, where we discuss how looking inward is the key to unlocking true entrepreneurial freedom. My name is Rob Dube and I'm here with my very, very good friend, Gino Wickman. Gino, it's great to see you again. Great to see you as well, my brother. Awesome.
Awesome. So first of all, we always like to start with a little bit of gratitude. You have a lot of choices on how you spend your time. So thank you for spending time with us today. We truly appreciate it. And we always hope that we make a huge impact on you. So today we're talking about why it's important to know your True Self as an entrepreneur.
And we talked about the True Self last time. So we kind of got going on that, talked about the definition and, you know, Gino, do you think we should restate the definition? Does that make sense?
[00:01:17] Gino Wickman: I do not think we need to because I shared it in my riff, we shared it in the previous episode with the two of us, and so the poor listener does not need to hear it for the third time.
[00:01:29] Rob Dube: So yes, go back and listen to the riff or the previous episode where the definition is, and just so you're very clear about what we're talking about. But what I want to do is dig in to how the True Self relates to us as driven entrepreneurs. And one of the things that I've heard in some of the work we do with our clients is if I free my True Self, will I lose my drive or this edge that I perceive that I have that has made me be so successful?
And I kind of want to kick it off there with what your thoughts are on that.
[00:02:04] Gino Wickman: Yeah, well, one big thought and statement is that it is possible to be driven and have peace. So that's the point that says it all, because that was my biggest fear, it's the fear we hear a lot from our clients, is that if I find peace, it will zap me of everything that has made me great, and that's just not possible.
So again, I'll repeat - it is possible to be driven and have peace. So with this understanding of the True Self of a driven entrepreneur, I'm so excited about this episode because I believe we driven entrepreneurs, we have very unique True Selves, or souls, if you will. And today we're going to define exactly what the soul or the True Self of a driven entrepreneur is.
So can't wait to dig in.
[00:03:01] Rob Dube: It's so great. You know, one of the things I actually want to go into the discipline right now for a second, and we're going to talk about all the disciplines in future episodes. But, you know, I wanted to use an example of one of the 10 disciplines, the first one, which is to me, it's kind of the foundation.
It's 10-Year Thinking. And this is where we're encouraging people to shift their mindset from short-term thinking to thinking in 10-year timeframes. And I was wondering to myself, so how does this help a person to free their True Selves with that kind of thinking? And I'm wondering what thoughts come to you when I say that?
[00:03:40] Gino Wickman: Well, you know, one of the key characteristics of a typical driven entrepreneur is they want everything now, now, now. In other words, it's really hard for them to think beyond next week, even next month, maybe even next quarter or next year. They're so now-focused. They're so intense. And so what this discipline does is breaks that pattern and gets them to shift that thinking to 10-year time frames where time slows down. Eventually they realize they actually accomplish more as a result of it, but the conditioning, the programming, the DNA, whatever it is, just starts with, they're born with this now, now, now urgency mentality that does as much damage as good.
[00:04:27] Rob Dube: You know, I was chatting with one of our clients and it's kind of a perfect story here when he started to think in that 10-year time frame and how it really related to his True Self. So I'll share the story really, really quickly and it's in the book. Eric Rieger is the name of the person. He has a very successful IT company in the Chicago, Illinois area and he was part of a peer group iIn the IT world.
And the facilitator of his peer group was setting up, I think there were about a dozen companies in the group from around the country. He was setting them all up to be prepared to sell off to private equity because that was a big thing that was happening in the industry. I think it still is.
And so Eric was, you know, everything he was doing every single day was around following this process to set up to sell to private equity, which there's nothing wrong with that, first of all, if that's what you want. But there was something about it. He noticed that it was tearing out his soul, like something didn't feel right to him.
And so he began to recognize this as he started to do this work and he paused and he said, I love that he said this, he said, “whose dream am I living anyway?” It's like, is it their dream or my dream? What he really wanted to do is he wanted to sell the company to his employees through an ESOP, employee stock ownership plan, which is ultimately what he did.
And I bring that up because to me, it is such a great example of someone who took the time to truly embrace their True Self, get quiet and understand what they really wanted out of this whole thing.
[00:06:17] Gino Wickman: What that prompts for me is I cannot tell you, I've lost count of the number of times that I will start working with an entrepreneur who wants to build a hundred million dollar company.
And I will say to myself and sometimes them, depending on the state of the relationship, “Do you really want to build a hundred million dollar company?” And as I think about it, you might've been one of those back in the day.
[00:06:40] Rob Dube: I probably was.
[00:06:41] Gino Wickman: Exactly. So it's this, it's this outer world, outside in decision making where they're seeing peers and other entrepreneurs building these hundred million dollar companies.
When at the end of the day, if you go inside out, if you really listen to your soul, your True Self, your intuition, your instincts, almost all of the time, they're going to scream at you and say, you know, a $12 million company throwing off a 25 percent profit ain't all bad and is still really, really hard to build.
So for what that's worth, and in almost every case, it's typically a year or two into the relationship when they really get their arms around it, ground themselves, see it clearly that they come up with some number that's a lot less than a hundred million dollars.
[00:07:27] Rob Dube: You know, I remember, you've said this to many people and I think you've used it as an example.
You and I are from the Detroit area and there's a very successful entrepreneur in the area named Dan Gilbert. And I probably don't have this story perfect, but you know, you would have clients that would say something like, “I want to be like Dan Gilbert.” And you would say, no offense, but you're not Dan Gilbert.
Did I get that kind of right?
[00:07:59] Gino Wickman: Exactly right. And there we're talking about, you know, billion dollar companies, billion dollar net worths. And it's just, most of us are not built for and cut out, you know, to build a billion dollar company. It's a whole nother level of skill sets, traits, intensity that, you know, it's just not all it's cracked up to be, but for those that are cut out for it, amen and hallelujah.
[00:08:21] Rob Dube: So, you know, what do you think is possible for the listener, the driven entrepreneur? What would their business be like for them if they were totally free? If, whatever was blocking them, all these ideas of what they think they should be and letting go of that and being their True Self shining bright.
I love that. That always resonated with me. You know, what would it be like? Can you, in some way, put that in words for somebody who's listening?
[00:08:50] Gino Wickman: Yeah, I'll do my best on that, but I'm going to flip it on you after I answer it.
[00:08:55] Rob Dube: Okay, great.
[00:08:55] Gino Wickman: Because I really believe you are the embodiment of the answer to that question.
And so I'd love you to just share a little bit of your story because I think where you are and what you did with your company is the definition of listening to your True Self and what's right for you. And, quite frankly, I am as well to decide to sell EOS Worldwide over five years ago. Now it was the greatest decision.
One of the greatest decisions I made for me, even though that company is worth substantially more. And if I kept it for five more years, that is all irrelevant in terms of making the right decision for me. So my answer to your question would be, for whoever that is out there listening, to come from this place, you will build the business.
And the life that you're built for, that your True Self wants, that you intuitively want for you, that you were intuitively put on this planet to build, that clarity will come to you and you will build exactly that. And back to this point about most entrepreneurs wanting to build a hundred million dollar company.
Those are just external world factors that they continue to make their decisions on when it's all about coming from the inside out. So there's my real kind of high level contextual answer, but I would love if you could just share how you actually did this in the real world in your life.
[00:10:22] Rob Dube: Well, you know, I think in my twenties, as I looked around at what I perceived to be what I was supposed to be, I remember saying this, I was in EO at the time.
It's embarrassing to even say this. I would say I want to own the Detroit Pistons. The NBA basketball team. I was a big basketball fan back then. And I remember one of the guys in the group would always kind of look at me like, “Oh, really?” And I'd say, “yeah.” And he still brings it up to this day.
I'm 54 years old. He said, “how's that going?” I didn't really want that. It just wasn't my True Self. I didn't know. I thought that meant something and it doesn't to me, you know, but I think the big point for me was when my business partner at the time, Joel Pearlman, and I sold the business. And then when we got it back and I started looking at things a little bit differently, and it was an evolution.
And then there was just a point where I was, I think I was just exhausted with trying to be something and get somewhere that just didn't feel in alignment with who I was and what I really wanted out of life. And that was a big part of what shifted for me and ultimately being able to put my ego aside and my identity as it related to the business and say, “I can't take this business to where it should go.”
And there's somebody better out there to do that. And that's when we did the succession plan. And I want to just add one last piece to this. I do believe when you get closer to freeing your True Self, that it opens up space and new things to come into your life that you couldn't have even imagined.
And that's what's happening right now at this very moment, this present moment with you. I mean, had I still been running imageOne, we wouldn't have been having that conversation, you know, in the Coney Island and et cetera, and been to this point. So who knows? You know, what's really in store for you when you free your True Self.
So thank you for turning the tables. 'cause I do think that may be a good example for people.
[00:12:35] Gino Wickman: Yeah. And, and just one more thing, you know, going back to my experience and how you and I could probably sit here and share a hundred client examples of when they finally created that space.
And that time and that stillness to listen, how it literally altered the course of their life and their business. You know? So just going back to when I decided to sell EOS Worldwide, you know, I know it was my True Self talking to me because it was so clear that I needed to do it right then and there.
And I'm starting to realize how my True Self really was talking to me more than I thought back in those days, because it's what helped me create EOS the way that I created it. So the point we're trying to make for the listener out there is that when you get still, listen to yourself, you will then clearly see the path for you.
You'll clearly start making those love-based decisions that are the right decisions for the business and the life you want. And then all the way back to your first point, discipline number one, 10-Year Thinking, When you shift that thinking to 10-year thinking, it gets you out of that now, now, now thinking, and that now, now, now thinking is what's getting you in trouble.
It's where a lot of the fear-based decisions are coming from, and you're just trapped in this current world, and it's all that you know, and it's all that you see, and so that 10-year thinking gives you an opportunity to just open that up and see so clearly the right path for you.
[00:14:03] Rob Dube: Yeah, you know, one of the things that you came up with, which is amazing, is the True Self Exercise.
And you take people, let me do a quick explanation, or do you want to explain it?
[00:14:15] Gino Wickman: Please, no, take the ball.
[00:14:16] Rob Dube: So let me do a quick explanation. It's where we have people mentally remove everything in their lives and then notice how they're feeling. So on one side it might be uncomfortable or lonely and on the other side it might be joy or unconditional self love.
And what we do is we take people through this exercise during talks or workshops that we do. And it's always enlightening to those in attendance and it brings out a lot of emotion. And when we talk about mentally removing things from their lives, we're talking about their businesses, and we're also talking about their loved ones.
So it's on all sides. It's every aspect of your life. And I'm curious, and then I want to bring this around to what this does for an entrepreneur, but did you know this exercise would be so powerful when this kind of came to you? It's really amazing.
[00:15:09] Gino Wickman: Yeah, no, I did not. And it was even scary doing it the first few times with an audience because I had no idea what to expect.
But my plan though is in a future riff, I am absolutely going to take our audience through that process. Cause I just want to do that on a one on one basis. So that's coming in the future, but a couple thoughts on the answer to your question. So it came to me in a meditation and in its simplest form, like you said, the exercise is to get you to mentally remove everything from your life, like everything where it's just you sitting there and it happened in a meditation.
It was very profound and I'll come back to what the profound aspect was for me. So scary for me to share it with an audience, but I shared it with the first one. It was incredibly impactful. Then another, then another, then another. The impact. It's always different for every person because it's what you need to see or hear at that moment.
So the impact for me was when I removed everything from my life, I realized I'm going to be okay. In other words, when it was just me with myself, knowing and being with my True Self, I'm going to be okay without all of these attachments, hooks, whatever these things were in my life that were giving me meaning.
And then all of a sudden, as you bring it all back, then there, for me, again, there was this peace and this security and this calm. So with that, I've had people on an example of two extremes where one person will do the exercise and will experience tremendous fear when everything is removed from their life and they're seeing for the first time what is scaring them and what they're attached to.
And just as quickly I've had people, they remove everything from their life and they feel absolute bliss, and then they bring it all back and the stress and pain shows up. So they realize all the people are things that are kind of attached to them or are pulling at them. So it's different for everyone, but it's just a very powerful exercise and it's in the book.
For those of you that have read it, you're familiar with what we're talking about. For those that haven't, give it a read, it'll take you through the exercise, but I am going to do it in a future riff, sooner than later.
[00:17:26] Rob Dube: I love it. And, you know, there's a great story actually in the book. The person who shared her name is Lynn Rousseau and she has an executive leadership coaching business for individuals and teams, and what she found during the exercise is she felt her True Self as a calm, clear, wise, and loving presence, but it was followed by a sadness and regret because she doesn't always make space for her True Self.
And she said, it is naturally present and in the forefront when I'm with clients. Even though I can feel the power in this core part of me, it gets pushed aside with the busyness of my work days, weeks, and months, and I feel a deep longing to be with this part of me and allow it to have more air time to be in the driver's seat.
I thought that was very insightful that she said it really actually, I've learned more about Lynn and really helped her to craft a more vivid vision actually of what she truly wants out of her business.
[00:18:26] Gino Wickman: You know, I'll make an extreme statement that just - so for those listening out there, feel what this feels for you.
But it's the whole idea is it helps get you to a place where it's just you coming to meet you and realize that you are not your business. You are not your accomplishments. You are not your family. You're not your friends. You're not all this stuff. You're not the money. And so what does that leave? That leaves just you again, to come and meet you.
Very powerful.
[00:18:53] Rob Dube: Yeah, so let me ask you this. How does the structure the ego creates get in our way actually in business? Where do you see that?
[00:19:06] Gino Wickman: I love your question, you know, because it's always, I just want to share something that I feel when you ask the question, because I don't have all the answers, you know, so I'm just going to give my version of my answer in terms of what it has meant to me, and then all of our clients and all of my interactions.
So this is just one person's opinion. So if I understand the question correctly, you're asking me how does the ego affect us driven entrepreneurs in business, right? You got it. Yeah. And so, I'll come back to this visual image. And so, there we are, our True Self, this bright, shiny, loving ball of energy that's perfect, is surrounded by this cocoon, this ego, this protective shield we've created, and so with that image, now bring that image, and that's you, and let's pretend that's the case, and that is your ego, into the business now, and you're going throughout, you know, every day, every week, every quarter, every year, you're solving six to ten issues a day.
Well, when the ego is operating, you are going throughout that day with an uneasiness. I always like to describe it as below the surface, and I always do this visual under my chin, like I call it the tectonic plates are always shifting. Your central nervous system is just uneasy. There's anxiety, there's discomfort.
So again, that's just the ego doing all the things that it does. scaring you, creating anxiety, reminding you of past pain and trauma, scaring the hell out of you, and so now all of a sudden you're going throughout your day solving all those issues, problems, doing what you're doing, again every day, every week, every quarter, every month, every year.
So, when you're making those decisions and you're in that place, unfortunately, it's going through that ego filter, and those are just more fear-based decisions, So there might be a really tough people decision that you need to make, and the right decision is to get that person out of your organization as fast as possible.
But your ego may kick in and say, but what about this? And what about that? And what if this happens? What if that happens? And so as a result, you don't make that tough decision and keep that person around for three more months, making all of your people miserable. They're wondering what the hell is taking you so long
And so, but that's, you know, that's a kind of an easier, more obvious decision. Then there's more subtle things like making growth decisions, investing in something that's gonna take you to the next level, all of a sudden that ego's online and it's trying to talk you out of every reason not to do that. So it's you letting the ego drive all of those decisions, which are typically fear-based, as opposed to going inside to that wonderful place, making an inside out decision.
Coming from a place of love.
[00:22:03] Rob Dube: Yeah, that's so good. I want to segue into the True Self model that we have and we talk about impact and peace as it relates to this and I'm wondering for the listeners if you can help them visualize this model that we've created. For those who are watching or those who are listening who want to see the visual, you can go to the YouTube channel and you can see the visual because I'm going to actually share it on our screen and take us through the True Self model.
[00:22:33] Gino Wickman: Absolutely. With that, I'm just going to do my best to paint a vivid image in your mind, and even the people that are watching, you might want to close your eyes as I take you through this, because it's more impactful to feel this than it is to physically see it, because I want you to grasp this on a soul level.
And so again, this is something else that came to me. And again, those listening, if you know what the infinity model looks like, it's looks like the number eight tilted on its side. And the infinity model is just this never ending flow, that figure eight, that just keeps flowing and flowing and flowing.
And so the visual was that flow. And then seeing this wonderful balance of what I originally called productivity and peace. Okay, so I'm going to start with the original inception because what I realized for us driven entrepreneurs, we have a very unique soul. We have a very unique True Self. We are all the same.
And it's about 4 percent of us on this planet, but we are all the same. And productivity and peace says that we are the producers. We love to produce, create, build. And so that is what you will see or envision on the left side of the model is that productivity side. On the right side of the model is that peace side, and the a ha and the awareness was that it is possible to be both productive and have peace.
But now zoom out, it is possible to be driven and have peace. And so what it's illustrating is this balance and this possibility that we, the driven, these True Self souls, can go do the wonderful work we do in the world that we now call impact. So Rob and I call that impact. That's what's on the left side now.
And we can do that while experiencing peace. It is possible, again, to be driven and have peace. And so now if you picture that infinity model, again, the figure eight laying on its side and it's flowing, the flow is illustrating this balance between making an impact on the world and experiencing peace.
Now the word impact, that's the word we choose, but there are lots of different words, and you out there get to choose your word. So you may like the word work. We also describe this as creating, producing, delivering your craft to the world, manifesting, earning, doing, providing value, serving, and also that word drive.
So you get to pick the word that works best for you. We always let our clients choose. Pick the word that resonates. We don't have to force impact on you, but impact is the word that we're most fond of. And so we're here to make an impact on the world. On the right side under peace, again, you get to choose your word there, but peace is also described as self trust, fully trusting yourself, love, intuition, being, presence.
Flow, energy, connected, letting go, awareness. And so again, choose your word there, but whatever word you choose on the left and the right, it's this balance and flow of those two things. Outside of that infinity model are all the barriers and obstacles preventing you from being in that flow. And so on the left side, what's preventing you from impact are things like insecurity, and fear, and fear of failure, and doubt, and lack of confidence.
All things that can be shed, Shed and Shine Podcast. On the right side, outside of the circle, are all the things preventing you from peace, which are things like fear and pain and trauma and wounding and the ego. And those things can all be shed. That's why they're outside of the circle. But the idea is to shed all of those things so that you can be in that flow.
And then at the bottom of the model, we just simply have an arrow that points up to the center of the infinity model. And it just says True Self, because that's where your True Self truly is, is making that impact while experiencing peace. We driven entrepreneurs are not built and intended to to live on a mountain, in a hut, meditating all day.
It's just not our thing. 30 minutes a day is what we recommend. That's about enough. That's about enough for a driven entrepreneur to then get back out there and get to work for the other, you know, 23 and a half hours a day. So we are built to work, to build, to make an impact. And so there's this wonderful opportunity to have both of those things.
And, and with that, True Self is the word we use, but also when you're in this flow that we're talking about, that's where you're truly letting your freak flag fly, as we lovingly like to say, or that you are flowting. F L O W T, we call that flowt, it's a combination of two words. Being in the flow, that's that flow state where you're making an impact while being in flow combined with floating where you literally feel like you're floating through life, that's that peace side.
And those two things coming together are what create the word flowt, F L O W T.
[00:28:12] Rob Dube: That's so great. Can you describe the sensation that you're noticing when your True Self is present in business?
[00:28:23] Gino Wickman: So I'm compelled to first say, I probably feel the thing you're asking about. Trying to get my latest math. I think this will be helpful for our audience.
Yeah, I'm probably feeling that 70 percent of the time now, which is really good because I probably was feeling it about 5 percent of the time. If we go back 30 years, it's a journey. Okay. It's all about progress toward freeing our True Selves. And I don't know if my math is right, but it feels about right.
Which means that 30% of the time, I'm not feeling that. So I'm not perfect. I'm on this journey with you. We're just trying to figure out every day. But the 70% of the time I'm feeling that, which is incredible when I think about it, it just feels light. It feels clear. It feels airy. I can't think of another way of saying it, but there is definitely a lightness.
It feels peaceful. A lot of the words that we've already said, but it's also, it's just this, I just see everything a lot better and clearer. It's like, this saying that I'll say from time to time, I see everything. It's just this way of just kind of seeing all the moving parts. I, jokingly love to say, it's like the movie, the Matrix.
You start seeing everything in ones and zeros, just a lot more clarity. And then, like I said earlier, I talked about below the surface, you know, underneath the chin, I always illustrated the tectonic plates aren't shifting as much. Central nervous system is much more calm. And so again, that's 70%, there's still 30%.
[00:30:07] Rob Dube: Let me ask you about the 30%.
Do you notice when this 30 percent is taking place, do you have awareness in the moment?
[00:30:16] Gino Wickman: 100%. You know, that's the beauty of this process in this journey. You start to see when your ego comes online, you just know. Oh, there you are, ego. I get what you're doing. It's all about awareness. It's all about awareness.
And we'll certainly do an episode on awareness. I know that's coming. But it's all about being able to step back and see what's happening. And so, yes, when I'm in that 30%, it's tough. The tectonic plates are shifting. Central nervous system is uncomfortable. I can't always get out of it quickly.
Sometimes, you know, it's the second half of the day and I just can't wait to get to that meditation the next morning because I may not have time to meditate. And so I’ve just got to grin and bear it through that period of time, because you know, I might be scheduled solid through six o'clock, and then I might have dinner. And then I might not be able to get to finding stillness. So sometimes I can catch it and kinda reverse it. Sometimes I know it's going on and there's not much I can do about it and I just have to live with that. Hopefully that answers your question.
[00:31:19] Rob Dube: I mean the awareness, I think, is one of the most important pieces, of the whole thing as you're stating because once you are aware of what's happening and it's uncomfortable, all of a sudden because you like to be with your True Self, you like to be in that state, and you start to notice when you're not and it irritates you. You start asking yourself, how do I get out of this state?
And that's awareness, and that moves you from 5 percent to 70, and hopefully at some point, 100. And one other way that we do that, and I'm just going to wrap up here for this episode, because in the next episode, we're actually going to talk about an assessment that we have, it's called the True Self Assessment.
And this is where we help you shine light where light needs to shine. These are key areas of growth for you and will help to keep that awareness at the forefront. So Gino, before I wrap, are there any last words that you have?
[00:32:15] Gino Wickman: Rob, I think we've said it all. We've said it all today on that one.
[00:32:19] Rob Dube: Okay, so just to always like to do a quick refresh of what this podcast is all about.
It's always going to be on the shorter side, 15 to 30 minutes, and Gino and I will continue to expand and provide additional feedback, flavor on the concepts from the book, Shine, The 10 Disciplines, sharing new content. And every now and then we're actually gonna bring in a special guest. Now, don't forget every other episode, Gino will be doing a solo riff to share what's top of mind for him.
These are new learnings and personal experiences. Now, during our podcast, as I've mentioned in the past, I'm gonna ask the questions, but the flow of our conversation, as you've been noticing, will be pretty organic. So, please keep tuning in, keep joining us each week so you can learn to shed layers, free your True Self, and ultimately shine.
[00:33:11] Gino Wickman: Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us, and please tune in for the next episode. Until then, take care. If you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self Assessment and receive personalized guidance.
If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines Group Coaching Program. We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
