Episode. 9 - True Self: What is it?
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[00:00:00] Gino Wickman: Welcome to the Shed and Shine Podcast. I am Gino Wickman. This is where Rob Dube and I help driven entrepreneurs shed their shit, free their True Selves, unlock true entrepreneurial freedom and shine. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and we hope to make a huge impact on you.
[00:00:22] Rob Dube: Hey everyone and welcome to the Shed and Shine Podcast where we discuss how looking inward is the key to unlocking true entrepreneurial freedom.
My name is Rob Dube and I am here with my very very good friend Gino Wickman. Hi Gino, how are you?
[00:00:39] Gino Wickman: How are you, Rob? How are you?
[00:00:41] Rob Dube: I'm doing well. For those of you that might not know, Gino and I are the co authors of the book Shine: How Looking Inward is the Key to Unlocking True Entrepreneurial Freedom, and the co-founders of The 10 Disciplines.
And I always like to say, and I know I speak for Gino when I say this, how much gratitude we have that you are listening in today. You have a lot of choices on how to spend your time and we truly appreciate you taking the time to learn with us. We always hope to make a huge impact on you. So today, we are going to be discussing the topic of the True Self.
What the heck is the True Self, Gino?
[00:01:22] Gino Wickman: Rob, I have no idea. I was hoping you were going to answer that.
[00:01:26] Rob Dube: Well, I always thought I'd start with you and then we could come back to me because we actually created a definition for how we see the True Self but, you know, first I'll just say, as we mentioned in the book, you know, it's referred to as a lot of different things.
Sometimes referred to as Essence, Spirit, Innate Self, Authentic Self, Life Force, Soul. We actually talked about should we use the word soul at one point. Is there anything I'm missing here before I keep going?
[00:01:56] Gino Wickman: No, those are all the words, you know, and I jokingly say I have no idea because, you know, at the same time, I feel like I, know what it is, but man, it's, it's, this is going to be a fun conversation, man.
So I hope we create some real clarity because it's hard to get your arms around. It's so clear and so not clear at the same time. So I can't wait for the conversation.
[00:02:18] Rob Dube: Well, one thing I love about reading the definition and it's a little long, it's three paragraphs. So as the listener, I hope you'll stick with me.
And I hope I don't stumble on my words because I am going to read it. But what I have noticed is, and I don't know, Gino, if you've had a similar experience, but what I notice is when I read it, I always look at people. And when I see bobbing heads, like bobble heads, I know we're onto something, the bobbing that I see is the up and down, like you're doing now.
It's the, it's like, yes, I get that. That makes sense to me. Have you had a similar experience?
[00:02:52] Gino Wickman: Absolutely.
[00:02:53] Rob Dube: Yeah. So, okay. So let me read it. Your True Self is the real you, the most authentic version of who you are. It's unshaped by societal expectations, professional roles, or social masks. It's the core identity that remains constant beneath the various hats you wear in different areas of your life.
It is typically buried behind your ego, personality, the suit of armor that you've developed over your lifetime due to pain, trauma, and conditioning. Freeing your True Self allows you to be authentic, free spirited, liberated, unconstrained, unbounded, and unapologetic. It allows you to realize your full potential, live in alignment with your values, passions, beliefs, and desires rather than conforming to societal norms or external expectations and bring the best version of yourself to everything in your life. Your True Self wants to be free. It can be free. When you are free and fully your True Self, you will experience peace, bliss and love. The opportunity is to remove everything preventing you from being your True Self. Then you will be more creative, intuitive, impactful, and in flow. And of course, you will shine as bright as possible.
Okay, so you let that sink in a second because the heads do bob. I think when people see that they, the first thing I always think that what I notice is they notice themselves realizing that they are conforming to societal expectations.
They are showing up different than their True Self in their professional roles. And then I always like the hats that you're wearing. I picture people taking on and off these different hats and they're acting in different ways in their lives. So I'll start here and maybe it's too high level, I don't know, but what would you say is possible in the lives of our listeners or our readers of the book if they work to free their True Selves?
[00:05:13] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and you know as I, I'll add a couple other words and maybe perspectives on that. Yeah, as I answer that question and as we answer that question, because, you know, so we're talking about what is your True Self, and it's almost like to know what it is, it's also helpful to know what it isn't.
What you read, it's so beautiful in terms of really helping show both sides of it. And I, I love at the end of there, so there's a Rumi quote. A philosopher from like the 1400s. And in so many words, I won't get this perfectly right, but he talks about how, you know, we are love, pure love, and our job in this life is to remove everything that isn't love.
And so that when we talk about what it isn't, what it isn't is this social conditioning. All these fears, these traumas? These layers, our personality, the persona we created, the armor shield we created, it is not any of those things. And so if we can somehow remove that, that then leaves what it is.
And so what it is, again, just some additional words, but you know, I believe it is our essence. It is pure love. It is intuition. It is, we're connected to all that is. It's this incredible power source that we can tap into that is just pure, bright light and vibrating at the highest level. And so that's what it isn't.
That's what it is. And so with that, could you just repeat your question, Rob, just so...
[00:06:52] Rob Dube: I just say what is possible for people if they work to free their True Selves?
[00:06:58] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and so, you know, when I talk about, I use that word intuition. And so I just want to give one example. And that is, what I find is when I'm connected to my True Self, I get these incredible downloads.
I get these, these, these downloads. Inspirations. My intuition is online. There's a knowing that exists when I'm in that place, and it's where I get my best ideas. It's where my creativity comes from. It's where peace comes from. And so those are some of the things that's possible is just better thinking, better ideas, better clarity.
And just incredible peace and bliss.
[00:07:39] Rob Dube: Yeah. Yeah. I want to go back to many, many years ago. And there's a story that you've told at different times, and it was that story about your 30th birthday party. And I was thinking about this when I was preparing. The societal expectations and how you show up in different ways, and it was a surprise party, and when you walked in, you saw all these different factions of people in your life, and you thought to yourself, βWho am I going to be today?β
You know, there were employees, business partners, family, etc, etc. And I wonder if you can speak a little bit to that, but also giving some thought to how that would look different for you today, you know, and I tie that into what's possible.
[00:08:26] Gino Wickman: Yeah, for sure. So, you know, the way I describe it is when I walked into that surprise party and looked at those hundred sets of eyeballs, there were six factions of my life there.
And so, you know, there was my family, my wife's family, my business partners, my employees, my high school friends, and then my newer friends at age 30. And what I realized is I was a different person for each one of them. I was literally a different persona and it was a persona that I created. So going back to age 15, when I created this tough guy persona to protect me and survive in life, I realized I was this chameleon that not only did I do that in general, I did that for each one of those factions.
I was a different person when I was with my family. I was a different person when I was with my wife's family. I was a different person with my employees. Different person with my high school buddies. So whenever I'm with my high school buddies, I instantly become 18 years old again, you know, or 16 years old again.
And then just a different guy with, with the newer friends. And it was just a lightbulb moment that I realized the chameleon that I was. I realized how exhausting that was, how heavy that was, the energy drain that it was, and that was my wake up call to say, I'm just going to be me going forward. Now, it wasn't like flicking a switch.
It was then a journey to just shed and continue to be aware of where I was being a chameleon and where I wasn't being me. And so now, shoot forward, I have the luxury of looking back at that 26 years later, and it's just been this constant shedding and awareness of me just being me. And I'm still not 100 percent there.
I'm a work in progress. That's what I love about this work that we're doing is with our clients, with our audience, with our readers, we're just on this journey with them. We're all trying to figure it out and all getting closer and closer to our True Selves. So, but shoot forward in time. Again, I don't know how close to a hundred percent I am, but it's just a much different, freer, lighter, more creative, more energizing life.
[00:10:44] Rob Dube: Yeah, you know, I remember back in my own personal experience, similar time frame, I remember I had a group of friends and there was an awareness that began to come up for me that we weren't aligned anymore. I wasn't my True Self with them and I kind of had to break up. And I have to tell you, it was scary as hell.
It was, it was shaking up my world. I wonder, did you have any similar experiences? Because I think for many, this is scary. It can shake up your world. I'm not trying to over dramatize it, but it will have you look at your life in a different way.
[00:11:22] Gino Wickman: Oh, there's no question, you know, and as you were talking there, what I'm reminded of is what's different in terms of a feeling.
Okay. And so shoot, shoot back to age 30 in that situation and just where I was in my life, there was just like an anxiety, a discomfort in my own skin and intensity that I felt inside. Where shoot forward now, there's again, just that calm and that peace and that comfort. And so to your point, with my high school friends, for example, you know,there'd be every indication that I would, you know, part ways with my high school friends because I'm so different than what I was back then.
But what's interesting is I am actually closer to my high school friends now, and I was terrified. Literally, that is the perfect word. In the last four to five years as I've really started having this awakening, I've been afraid to be my True Self with them and I, because I thought they would leave me, you know, so who's gonna leave first?
But as I'm more my True Self, they're also more their True Selves and I feel more connected to them than ever. So it's kind of freaky weird. It's good. Because I don't think it works out that way every time. I think it's kind of just the opposite where you part ways. And so I, it's, that's kind of a blessing that it actually brought us closer.
So.
[00:12:57] Rob Dube: Yeah,
[00:12:58] Gino Wickman: but there are some friends that now are more, a little more distant, maybe some family members, things like that. But ironically it brought us closer together, which I would have thought I would be just the opposite.
[00:13:09] Rob Dube: Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up because the opposite can happen actually. It can bring you closer together.
People will feel deeper connection because of that and appreciate you for the true person that you are, where you weren't before. And also, they might be inspired by what you're doing and they might ask you a question or two about what's changing.
[00:13:32] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and it prompted another thought because what I realized, you know, with them, I was always putting on a show for them, you know, because we're going all the way back to like some of them I've known since elementary school, but, I think back to age 15, 16, 17, I was always putting on a show, even through my 20s, I should say, and into my 30s, and I just don't put on that show anymore. So it's like easy now, you know, that's the best word I can think of.
[00:14:02] Rob Dube: There's so many paths I want to go down right now and I'm just trying to figure out which one to go down because, you know, one thing that came to my mind is, you know, we talked about, I think it's Michael Singer, might be David Hawkins, when people have their hooks in you.
Is that Singer?
[00:14:19] Gino Wickman: Uh, that is, no, that's Hawkins. Hawkins, that's right. Yeah, so people have their hooks in you, and this is one of the things, or you might have your hooks in them. Um, you, you prompted that thought when you were talking about your friends from high school to me. When you are freeing your True Self, you start to notice more who you have your hooks in and who have their hooks in you.
[00:14:43] Rob Dube: And did you notice that? For you, what did
[00:14:46] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and that was not so much with high school friends. Uh huh. That would be more family.
[00:14:57] Rob Dube: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Gino Wickman: And newer friends and colleagues, you know, so even in my business world, I started to really get clear on the hooks that exist.
[00:15:09] Rob Dube: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Gino Wickman: Oh, and, and the, the term that Hawkins also uses is attachment, you know, where you're just feeling attached.
So you're either feeling attached to someone or they're feeling attached to you. And so just this unhealthy relationship. And so, you know, the idea is that the healthy side is where you're choosing each other. In other words, you just enjoy each other's energy. You enjoy being around each other. There is no attachment.
There are no hooks. There's no ulterior motives. And so there's, I heard a friend share with me, it's called real friends or deal friends, you know, so is there like, is there like a deal going on here? Is there a motive, a reason for this relationship? Or is it just that we just enjoy being together?
Yeah.
So that's where I noticed it more. And, so even with my friends later in life, even those friends that were there at that 30th birthday party that were newer friends, you know, in the last few years, I'm starting to have these conversations with them and just be more of my True Self and they're not running away.
So the fear was always, they're just all going to run away, or I was going to run away, because if they didn't like it, I was running away. And so ironically, it's just, it's bringing us closer. So it's, I've been fortunate from that standpoint.
[00:16:23] Rob Dube: Yeah. You know, we, we write in the book, your ego is not happy that you're reading this book right now and that the ego has us trapped in a prison and does not want us to break free.
You know? Can you expand on that?
[00:16:39] Gino Wickman: Well, let's see if I can expand on that. Our egos' intentions are good. Okay. And so we came to this planet, innocent, our True Selves, and then the world got a hold of us and the world, you know, can be tough. And so we develop forms of protection, we get conditioning, we're taught things, we learn things from the people around us that love us and they think the intention is good.
But ultimately what happens is our ego is just simply protecting us from things that have happened in the past, things that are afraid are going to happen in the future. And so its intentions are very, very, very good. They're just wanting to protect us. And sadly, what happens is we create, I like to describe it as a cocoon, as I've shared in one of my riffs, this cocoon of protection.
And we create this illusion in life, this persona in life that we think is serving us well, that we think is what is best for us. And it's just not reality. It's not our True Selves fully expressing itself and our ego is just terrified of us fully being our True Self because it's the unknown to just let go.
Let your freak flag fly, fully be you in the world. That is terrifying to the ego, because it's still trying to protect us from that saber toothed tiger from a million years ago.
[00:18:19] Rob Dube: Yeah. So, you know, we talk about the 3 Discoveries and then the four levels that are under Discovery #2. I'm not going to get into the specifics of everything right now.
We will do that. But, you know, one of the levels is your True Self is in There and the ego is fighting to keep it in there, as you're saying. I'm curious, when did you realize that your True Self was βin there?β
[00:18:51] Gino Wickman: It was about three years ago, so my early fifties. I understood the concept relatively, but it really came clear because I still was struggling to define the ego.
Up until, again, almost 52 years old, which is really wild because I had been trying to understand it for at least 22 years when I first got pinged. So, you know, and I shared this in the riff because I have this visual image of what it looks like and that's the best way for me to understand it. But I just clearly saw how it is this part of us.
That is just simply trying to protect us. It's our mind. It's just our mind at work, doing what it does well, thinking, but unfortunately it can get us in trouble because part of that thinking is thinking about everything, the past, future, all the fears, what could happen. And so I just clearly saw it as this kind of Teflon shell, this armor suit, this cocoon that there is our True Self locked inside of there wanting out.
And the ego is just surrounding us and protecting us. And it's again, all of the traumas, the fears, the worries, the conditioning, the lessons we've learned, some good, some bad.
[00:20:22] Rob Dube: I'm curious if in any way, when you started to recognize this, if you felt in any way uncomfortable or scared, like, what are you talking about?
[00:20:33] Gino Wickman: Recognizing it, wasn't scary... addressing it was scary because what I find is right is as I, this isn't the right word, but I'm gonna use this word, as I confront the ego, the ego strikes back, so that's when it gets scary. And so as I've shared this where reading Letting Go was a very profound experience for me.
That book was very profound, and as I started to confront these things and start to let go of these things, my ego was resisting it, and that's when it got scary. That's when, in meditation, in dreams, just throughout the day, it would show me stuff and try to scare me. It was resisting me letting it go.
And again, it's still a process. I don't think I have fully let it go, but I'm on that journey. But that's when it gets scary is when the ego really resists and it tends to show you your deepest fears because it does not want to be let go of.
[00:21:48] Rob Dube: And it does that often in ways that we make decisions.
And I'm curious, when you make a decision, how do you tap in nowadays to your True Self so you can do an inside out decision versus an outside in decision?
[00:22:06] Gino Wickman: Yeah, what I've learned for me is my two greatest ways are meditation and contemplation. And what I realized is while creating EOS over, you know, a 20 year period of really the main five years, but also as I look at it, that whole 20 year period, I would take what I call a Clarity Break and I would go sit in a coffee shop for a minimum of two hours. And what I've now realized looking back is I was tapping into my True Self there and didn't realize I was doing it because I would get incredible inspiration, clarity, creativity. And that's when EOS was really formulated.
Those were the most impactful formulations. And so I would be out there working with clients, creating this system, and it was just really intense, 55 hour weeks, working with clients in session rooms, a lot of information, and then I'd go sit in a coffee shop for a couple hours, and the tectonic plates would stop shifting, my body would settle, and then incredible inspiration would come out.
And I'll shoot forward to what I've learned in the last few years. It is absolutely in meditation because I wasn't meditating often back then. I didn't realize that that was contemplation back then. Now I'm very, I'm much more formal about my meditation routine, much more formal about my contemplation routine.
And so, you know, this book we wrote, Shine, I mean, that is where most of my inspiration came from is in meditation and in contemplation.
[00:23:45] Rob Dube: So two questions on that. First is, what is the routine? And then do you journal as well?
[00:23:53] Gino Wickman: Yes. Not very often, but I absolutely do journal. And my journaling is with a legal pad.
So it's, I have a journal, I have a formal journal. I do capture some things there and those are for what I consider to be like content insights, but it's more a legal pad. And so it's not something I'm keeping for all of time. You know, that page most of the time gets ripped off and thrown in the garbage when I'm done, but it's even like with the title Shine, I was sitting there, came out of meditation, then I was in contemplation.
I'm sitting with my legal pad and I did this thing I learned about called hot penning, which you're familiar with, and I just started writing and letting words come out and then I just literally wrote the word Shine. It's like something forced me to write the word Shine. And it was like, this is it.
And again, that's just one example. And then to your question for the routine, it's really simple. I meditate, it's about 30 minutes, 3-5 times a week. You know, I ground myself, take a few deep breaths, and just kind of connect to all that is. And then just sit there quietly, my mind races for the first 10 minutes, and then somehow it just goes calm.
And then magic tends to happen. Sometimes it's a dud, sometimes there's magic, but nonetheless, at a minimum, what it does is just kind of brings me right down to the ground and centers me.
[00:25:14] Rob Dube: Do you do this in the morning, in the evening? When do you get started with this?
[00:25:18] Gino Wickman: Typically in the morning.
[00:25:20] Rob Dube: Yeah.
And then what part of that is contemplation?
[00:25:23] Gino Wickman: And then, so when I finish the meditation, sometimes I'll do it before the meditation, but when I come out of the meditation, then I will just spend some time pondering, thinking, contemplating, again, writing on my legal pad, just whatever's coming up for me.
[00:25:36] Rob Dube: And so, how do you know what's going to come up?
[00:25:39] Gino Wickman: Well, I never know what's going to come up.
[00:25:41] Rob Dube: Explain that. Like, take somebody who hasn't sat in contemplation through what happens when you sit and contemplate.
[00:25:51] Gino Wickman: So, it's really important, and I would suggest 90 percent of the time, it's whatever comes up.
You know, and a lot of times, it's just the day ahead. It might be, you know, preparing for this podcast, I spent a little time doing that. It's whatever is coming up. So it's not like it's an agenda. It's specific. But I would say 10 percent of the time when I'm feeling a little overwhelmed, one of the tricks I will do is I will just list everything that's overwhelming me.
And so sometimes I'm writing 15 things, sometimes I'm writing four things. And then I'll just go through each, let's pretend there's 10 things I wrote down. I'll then go through each of the 10 and I'll just write some expanded notes on each one and it really helps my clarity. The overwhelm goes away.
I've actually sat with people doing this. When they come to me overwhelmed, I hand them a legal pad and a pen and I say, all right, let's write everything that's overwhelming. So I will do that about 10 percent of the time. That's really clarifying. But it's whatever's going on. And sometimes I'm looking back.
That's pretty rare. 10 percent of the time, most of the time, I'm looking forward. A lot of times I'm just looking at the now, but it's just all about where I am and lots of cool insights come from it.
[00:26:58] Rob Dube: Are you looking for answers, or are you just pondering questions?
[00:27:02] Gino Wickman: I would say I'm looking for answers 20-30 percent of the time.
So it's not the majority of the time. The rest is, again, you're not liking this answer, but keep digging.
[00:27:17] Rob Dube: I love your answer. Why are you saying that? I love this answer.
[00:27:20] Gino Wickman: We always do that. So I'm just letting come up, you know, what is going to come up.
[00:27:26] Rob Dube: Yeah,
[00:27:27] Gino Wickman: I wish I could come up with something specific, but now I'd love to turn it on you because you have such a disciplined routine.
I think our listeners need to hear exactly what it is that you do.
[00:27:41] Rob Dube: Okay, well, first, I always like to start by saying don't use me as your gauge. Okay, but when I wake in the morning, the first thing I do is I meditate. So, you know, I'm right to that. That's a time for many of us when we wake up, our mind starts racing right away.
And so this is an opportunity for me to, in a sense, get a little bit of control of that and settle it down and really get into a peaceful place and practice being in the present moment right out of the gates. I learned that many years ago and that's been useful for me. When I'm done, I journal and so then I'm just coming up with any thoughts that are naturally coming to my mind, and then a lot of gratitude. I just spend a lot of time. What I notice about my gratitude journaling is I start simply, like, almost like, okay, I want to get this done so I can get going for the day. And then I just, it's hard to stop.
It just keeps going and going. There's one thing after another thing. And then I'm just like, this is crazy how many things are in our lives to be grateful for. So that's my morning practice. And then my evening practice is 20 minutes before I go to bed. And that's just a time to settle my mind from all the craziness that's gone on throughout the day.
Sometimes in the middle of the day, I will take a break and just sit and do a brief meditation, maybe two to five minutes. And sometimes I'll just lay down for two minutes on the floor and just let my body just be a blob and rest, we need that. We don't give ourselves the opportunity to do that. We go too hard.
So anyway, those are some of the things that, yeah,
[00:29:28] Gino Wickman: Let, let me, let me just, I wanna piggyback a couple things on what you said because, you know, going back to the topic of this episode,
[00:29:35] Rob Dube: yeah.
[00:29:35] Gino Wickman: It's about really understanding your True Self and what I'm hoping that you're hearing out there is, these are two ways, this meditation, this contemplation and/or journaling, that Rob and I tap into our True Selves.
We're talking about helping you understand and tap into your True Self . It's one of the ways to cancel all the noise. It's the way to remove the cocoon. It's the way to get the ego to subside, if not for this precious 30 minutes every day. So you are literally connecting with your True Self, you're listening to your True Self, your True Self is doing the speaking.
[00:30:13] Rob Dube: Yeah.
[00:30:13] Gino Wickman: And then for what it's worth, I also do some lying meditation like you're talking about. I learned this a couple of years ago. I did not think it would be productive, but just laying there, going still and silent has also been profound. I don't do it as often as I do the regular meditation, if you will, or the sitting meditation, but that's been pretty profound as well.
[00:30:34] Rob Dube: You know, one of the things back to the True Self, we have a lot of decisions to make and, I'll use myself as an example, a lot of inputs. I imagine everybody's in the same boat. You know, there's a lot of data, a lot of opinions, a lot of things coming at us. For me, sometimes it just feels very confusing. I think every point's a good point. Okay, we could go that way, we could go this way, we could go that way.
They all sound good to me, I don't know. But what I notice is when we, or myself, but I've seen this with many, many others, when you stop and get quiet, and you let all that data kind of settle, then you start to embody what is happening, embody in your body, and listen. Just listen deep, getting quiet, listening deeply.
The answer is inside of you. Your True Self will bring that out. It will guide you in the right direction.
[00:31:29] Gino Wickman: Yeah, and I would also add to that, that, you know, I believe we driven entrepreneurs, which is our audience, we're making 10 times the decision of the average person on the planet, and this shows up throughout the entire day.
If you will do this discipline, meditate, contemplate, prayer, stillness, whatever it is for you, 30 minutes a day, it has a lasting effect for the next 23 and a half hours in terms of all of your decisions throughout the day. And they will become more love-based decisions, again, from your True Self, from inspiration, from intuition, as opposed to these ego-based, fear-based decisions throughout the day.
[00:32:08] Rob Dube: Gino, I think that is the perfect place for us to wrap up this episode. And our next episode, we're going to segue right into why it's important to know your True Self as an entrepreneur. So, perfect timing. I love that you did that. So as we wrap, I just want to remind you each podcast that you hear from us is going to be kind of on the shorter side, 15 to 30 minutes.
And during the podcast, Gino and I will be expanding and providing additional flavor on the concepts from the book Shine, the 10 Disciplines, sharing new content, and every now and then we'll bring in a special guest. Every other episode, Gino will be doing a solo riff to share what's top of mind for him, new learnings, and personal experiences.
And as I mentioned, I'll be asking the questions and the flow of our conversation will always be pretty organic. So we hope you'll join us each week so you can learn to shed layers, free your True Self, and shine.
[00:33:11] Gino Wickman: Thank you for listening in today. We truly appreciate you taking the time to spend with us and please tune in for the next episode.
Until then, if you'd like to see where you are on your True Self journey, go to shedandshinepodcast.com to take the True Self assessment and receive personalized guidance. If you're all ready to begin your inner world journey with Rob and myself, please join us for the next round of the 10 Disciplines Group Coaching Program.
We wish you all the best in freeing your True Self. Stay focused and much love.
